Dirty old tools

[AndyT]

I've not bought any old tools for a while, but the temptation of a local collection-only eBay listing is hard to resist...

My purchases included some chunky chisels, looking like these, but all easily put into usable condition:

After a spot of electrolysis and some wire brushing, and some reviver on the handles, they now look like this (cleaned but not yet sharpened):

Cleaning reveals the names properly - this one's by Isaac Greaves, with their own size numbering:

Who's hiding under the rust?

It's Mr Punch!

This Mitchell mark seems to have been made with some force

but there's plenty of iron behind it. The steel cutting edge is laminated:

Other treats included my first Australian spokeshave:

these Marples carving tools

some older ones with (i think) just enough good steel beneath the pitting when I sharpen them

and a few other goodies as well. This is an unusual one - first I've seen like it:

I think it's a pruning chisel - designed to be used on a long handle for pruning small trees. There's a picture of one in Salaman's Dictionary. Or it could be for cutting off weeds, which is probably what I will use it for. I can't quite make out the name - it's not one I recognise.

So, the point of this isn't to gloat, it's to give people a bit of a nudge, and point out once more that underneath the rust and dirt, useful tools are still easy to find. Get hunting!

 

[Bm101]

Those tools fell into the right hands Andy.

 

[ED65]

Always nice to see things in a sad state given a new lease on life. Nicely done.

I hope this isn't a dumb question but with anything fitted to wooden handles how did you manage the electrolysis?

If you're able to remove the handles successfully I'd certainly love to know how! I have a couple of older chisels I'd like to put my own octagonal handles onto but would prefer not to have to sacrifice the original turned ash ones as they're in excellent condition.

 

[AndyT]

Ed - on the smaller socketed chisel, the handle was loose, so that was no problem. On the oval handled chisels, I just used a deep container (a cut-down plastic milk bottle) and suspended the chisels vertically, one at a time, with a crocodile clip under water level to make the electrical connection. The chisel rested on the bottom of the bottle, propped in position with a couple of sticks. I then topped up the water level to coincide with the edge of the metal.

I hope that makes sense - I really should have taken a photo - sorry!

 

[RogerP]

Very nice, something I also get great satisfaction from doing, giving old tools a new lease of life.

As to removing handles. I grip the metal part horizontally a a vice with soft jaws and then (interposing a short wooden drift) give the handle a tap (or a whack depending) with a hammer. They're usually easy to shift.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Nice, interesting selection!

The socket chisels look a bit rougher than they really are; they were intended for heavy work beyond the capacity of firmer chisels. I suppose they are the 19th century equivalent of the heavy registered chisels with the double-hooped handles we're more familiar with from the 20th century. The apparent crack under the Mitchell stamp is probably where the wrought iron was forged out into a fan shape, then folded round and welded to make the socket - a couple of mine show the same feature. The sockets hold their handles well, too - the slight unevenness resulting from forging makes them a bit grippier of handle sockets than the machined sockets of more recent chisels.

Have you got a decent selection of sizes with the Oval Bolstered Mortice chisels? They look to vary between quite thin and quite chunky, but it's hard to judge from a side-on picture. I'll hazard a guess that the Isaac Greaves 5 is a 5/16" or thereabouts.

The hex-handled gouges look like real oldies. I suspect they're actually firmer gouges rather than carving chisels, but the large bolster and long sweep of the shoulders suggest early to mid 1800s. The Marples bulbous-handed ones are later - early 20th century, perhaps?

I like the weed-botherer. It might be worth seeing if it'll sharpen with a file - many tools with horticultural uses were so made.

 

[AndyT]

Thanks CC - yes, I think I've got the sizes covered for all my mortising needs now, even if I find that I need to make a few five bar gates - I'll add a view the other way round, and maybe a few more bits from the same trip...

Nice to relate the split to the forging work too. I assume these were hand made at the anvil, a long time before drop forging became possible, but it's good to have it confirmed.

The 1938 Marples catalogue shows sets of very similar carving tools - I think they were available for a good long period. It describes them a s "A Delightful Present" which I guess is true even if there are only three left.

 

[G S Haydon]

Great work Andy, very nice examples of both quality tools and sympathetic restoration.

 

[AndyT]

As requested, here's a group shot, showing that I now several 3/8" size chisels to choose from, so I think I had better take some of these, or near equivalents, along to Richard Arnold's charity bring and buy sale.

(It's coming up soon - check this thread for details and clear all other events from your diaries! the-2116-hand-tool-open-workshop-macmillan-charity-weekend-t96331.html )

(Yes, another chisel has appeared which was not in the previous shot - it was a very good value purchase!)

As for the garden chisel, yes a file sharpened it adequately, but I found that I had one of these, which as well as doing a decent job on this, should surely settle ALL future sharpening requirements and therefore ALL sharpening threads - if this serves all purposes, why would anyone need anything else? :wink:

I tapered the end of a broom handle with a handy witchet,

to fit it to the chisel, so now I just need to find the energy to try it out.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I tapered the end of a broom handle with a handy witchet,

to fit it to the chisel, so now I just need to find the energy to try it out.

I like that handy witchet. Where did you find that ? A nice looking example.

 

[dickm]

In Hereford diaalect, that "weed-botherer" was called a "thistle-spud". They often had a hook formed on the shoulder for pulling rather than slicing tap roots.
.

 

[AndyT]

Tony - I bought it in Bristol Design, for not very much. I think it was £16. (One of the many pleasures of shopping there is that although for some items their prices seem high, for others the opposite applies.)

But as these things only come up quite rarely, you might recall that some time ago, I spotted a different pattern of fixed size rounder in there - which looks much easier to make than the regular pattern with an old plane blade and a thinner bit of wood:

More here.

 

[AndyT]

In Hereford diaalect, that "weed-botherer" was called a "thistle-spud". They often had a hook formed on the shoulder for pulling rather than slicing tap roots.
.

That's interesting - I have heard a similar shaped tool - for removing bark - called a spud, but didn't know the same name was used for the horticultural tool.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Well done getting all those OBM chisels to stand up on their handle short sides! Even trapped between 'wedges', those things are very keen to 'lie down', as it were!

The 3/8" size seems to be quite common on the secondhand market, but a little thought did make me wonder why. Using the (very approximate) rule of thirds, a 3/8" mortice chisel would suit stock between about 1" and 1 1/4". However, most furniture work tends to be in thinner stock (for which 1/4" or 5/16" mortices are about right), and most joinery work in rather thicker stock, using 1/2" or thicker mortices - the interior entrance doors in my house are 1 3/8" and 1 1/2" thick. (I'm no expert on sash work, so there may be an application there.) Thus, poor old 3/8" is a bit betwixt and between for a lot of applications.

Interesting about the thistle-spud. I have seen an old device with two long prongs and a short piece of round at right angles used for a similar purpose - the prongs are pushed into the earth alongside the tap root until the round bar contacts the ground, then you heave back on the (usually longish) wooden handle, the bar acts as a fulcrum, and the weed is extracted - in theory!. Many such tools were consigned to sheds with considerable alacrity when Roundup was invented!

(PS - If we found a spud in Cheshire, we'd probably eat it! :lol: )

 

[AndyT]

That's a good point about the size - perhaps it's a bit like moulding planes, where it seems easy to find extremely large or small sizes in very good condition, while the middle sizes presumably got worn out. I had a quick look round at the exposed ends of through tenons on the doors in our house, and they are all 7/16" rather than 3/8", on doors 1 3/8" thick. There is a cupboard door, which is an odd size and so more likely than the others to have been hand made, and although the stock is only 1 1/8" thick, the tenons are still 7/16".
(Maybe this really reflects the use of machinery, where it was too much trouble to swap the cutters for a smaller size. Mass production of doors by machinery became the norm well before the end of the nineteenth century.)

 

[JonnyW]

This is the kind of project I love seeing. Well done Andy for giving that beauties a new lease of life - as someone else has already stated, they luckily fell into the right hands.

I always wonder what stories old tools could tell you and wonder how many magnificent tools like that have ended up in land fill.

Jonny