Dining table

[Chris152]

Well, dining table is the ambition, we'll see if I get there. I'm sure much of this will be quite uninteresting to most of you but maybe ok for its comic value.
I want to build a dining table along these lines

and am going to build a small version first to make mistakes/ learn before I get into something so large (I thought maybe 6 ft length for the final piece).
So, coffee table.
I had a 3 metre piece of beech which I cut into 3 and planed 2 adjoining edges at a time, and using a straight-edged piece of white wood to help me keep the plane level.

The board was sawn neatly when I bought it, so after initial planing by a friend on his jointer (which didn't work very well - another story) I decided to glue the board and deal with thickness/ trying to get a decent finish after that.

To do so, I ground a spare blade for my No4 to something vaguely resembling the shape for a scrub plane and it worked a treat - I was really surprised how easy it is to use across the grain and that it actually seemed to work.

This is part way through final levelling and smoothing (which still isn't complete)

Unfortunately there are some stains in the wood - a vertical line, and then some blotches which a carpenter (friend of a friend) says it looks like something to do with the power planer not being clean, but I didn't understand):

Really annoying and I can't plane them out. Also, the ends of the boards were a different colour, almost as if they'd been steamed (?) but it is supposed to be unsteamed wood:

Finally so far:

Some rough sawn air dried beech for the substructure. I cut them down to a little oversize so I could easily store them while they continue drying - they've gone from about 18% to 15% since Tuesday, which seems a bit quick, and it may well be a mistake to chop them like this before they've dried, I don't know but will see. Also, as the top will be ready soon I guess I might have to go out and get some kiln-dried instead so I can get on with it.
Next instalment to follow!

 

[custard]

Chris, full credit to you for attempting something smaller scale first. That's a really smart move.

Edge jointing boards to make a wider piece is the fundamental wood working joint. You need to do it for almost every project, so it makes sense to do it right. Cramping a board alongside to "keep the plane level" sounds like some wacky YouTube idea, in forty years of woodworking I've never seen a professional cabinet maker do that for edge jointing boards of normal thickness.

A better approach is to work directly on the edge with your plane, you curl the fingers of your left hand under the plane's sole to act as a fence against the workpiece (don't grip the plane's front knob), and using the camber of the plane iron to take shavings that are thicker on one side of the edge than the other, you progressively adjust the surface so it's straight and at ninety degrees to the face.

When you first try it's like changing gears as a learner driver, too many things to do at the same time and it all seems impossible. But persevere, practise makes perfect.

Good luck!

 

[Chris152]

Cramping a board alongside to "keep the plane level" sounds like some wacky YouTube idea, in forty years of woodworking I've never seen a professional cabinet maker do that for edge jointing boards of normal thickness.

Haha, I might just start my own youtube channel! I did start to wonder exactly how it was functioning as I went - sort of like the guidance a shooting board gives but without the groove removed by the edge of the blade or the back plate to keep the plane square, so it probably confused more than helped. I'll do some practising with longer scraps to make a fence with my fingers before I try another jointing edge. Really appreciate your advice.

 

[Chris152]

I decided to buy a length of steamed beech for the legs etc rather than put things on hold while the air-dried wood acclimatised. I got hold of a pretty square sawn length of 165mm x 50mm and cut slightly over length

and then sawed it on the bandsaw to 43mm square lengths, and planed back toward the 40mm that I need for the small table

The timber was quarter sawn - I'll get boards with grain at 45 degrees for the full-size version.
Some of the lengths are now a tad off the dimension needed so I'll try to plane them to the right size tomorrow.
Next, drawing up the mortice and tenon joints on paper before gritting my teeth and making those cuts. By the end of it my planing was better than at the beginning (which isn't saying so much). The pattern on some of the length was astonishingly beautiful, I think.

 

[MikeG.]

........Unfortunately there are some stains in the wood - a vertical line, and then some blotches which a carpenter (friend of a friend) says it looks like something to do with the power planer not being clean, but I didn't understand):
..........

Those look like stick marks to me. This is where the board sat on the spacers sticks when being air dried, and is a particular feature of high tannin timbers such as oak (in my experience). You will be able to plane them away eventually, but whether this means removing too much timber I can't know. It's usual to try to select the other faces of a board such that these marks would be on the underside.

 

[Chris152]

Thanks Mike. There seem to be two kinds of mark in that photo - one the vertical line at the centre, and then a number of splotches that are in places quite random:

Whatever, it looks like I'll have to plane some more away to try to reduce both, though I do want to keep the top as thick as possible now. I plan to trim the 'steamed' looking ends/ edges back but they'll persist to some extent, but hopefully will look ok once they've been toned down by the finish and where they persist they'll kind of fit with the steamed beech legs. Hopefully light top and steamed legs will look good.
(Lots of 'hopefullies'...)

 

[Chris152]

Mike - after your post I planed back the marked area again and it's now way better - the splotches are just about gone, though there's now a dip of about 1mm in that part of the top, but I've feathered that into the rest of the top and it's not visible to my eye. Thanks again.

I'm now drawing (on paper) the joints at full size. Fine in principle, but in practice I'm concerned at the precision that the joints need with the legs and 'apron' (such as it is) being the same dimension. Is it a good idea (edit - given that I'm new to this) to make the cross members a few mm smaller than the legs, and those that run along the length a few mm smaller than the cross members, so any slight deviation from perfect doesn't notice so much?

 

[MikeG.]

That's the standard approach, but if all the stock is equally dry when you start, you don't actually need to worry about shrinkage too much as they should all move equally. Personally, I don't like the flush look in these circumstances, and would always have the legs bigger than the secondary members.

 

[Chris152]

It was more user error than shrinkage that was my concern, Mike (as you'll see below)! I decided to go with consistent dimensions for the legs etc to see how I'd get on.

I drew the joints full size, then cut them using a second-hand morticer I bought recently and the bandsaw. All seemed to work to plan, more or less, but the tenons and shoulders needed cutting back a little with my new shoulder plane. (I seem to be using it more like a chisel with a nice handle, not really getting any curling shavings on the shoulders yet, especially when trying to plane across the growth rings.) The joints are still not perfect as you can see below - partly because of the joints maybe, partly because some of the sections weren't perfectly square, it turns out.

Dry-joined upside down on the underside of the table top.

You can see here how poorly prepared wood stops the cross member from registering properly on the leg. A few of the joints are like this - maybe some will pull better when I glue up, but I want to plane them so they're flush. Is that possible, and if so do I do it once I've glued up by planing across the corner (I planed across the corner when I made a jewellery box to get the sides level, but wonder if it'll work on this scale)? Or do I try to plane them square before glueing up?
oh - and should I glue the two end sections first, then add the length pieces once the ends have set, or do I do it all at one? Sorry to be asking so many questions.

I'd really appreciate any advice at this stage. Thanks.

 

[Racers]

Yes, glue the two ends up then glue the stretchers between the frames.

Is the gap because the leg is too long or the mortice not far enough up?

Pete

 

[Chris152]

Yes, glue the two ends up then glue the stretchers between the frames.

Is the gap because the leg is too long or the mortice not far enough up?

Pete

Thanks Pete - it sounds easier than trying to get the whole thing glued right at one time.
In the case in the photo, it's the mortice that's not far up enough - but all for legs are exactly the same so I just thought to remove some with a plane (I guess I need to add a block plane to the shopping list?). It was the slight protrusion to the left of the cross member that was troubling me more - can I plane that away after glueing?

 

[Racers]

If the mortice is the error then thats what needs correcting, either cut the mortice higher of remove some from the top of the tenon.
End grain dosn't add much strength to the joint so if its sloppy up and down it won't matter.

Pete

 

[custard]

Chris, have a read through this thread and look out for the bit about a "bumcheek moulding", it might be relevant to your build.

leadwood-desk-t102286.html

It was the slight protrusion to the left of the cross member that was troubling me more - can I plane that away after glueing?

Yes, although set your plane very very fine and be careful about gouging out a crossgrain gash. There's normally a 3mm or so "reveal", i.e. the cross members would be thinner than the legs and inset from the front by 3mm. This delivers two benefits, it gives you a shadow line which improves definition, and it soaks up any small discrepancies therefore removing the need for clean up planing. However, flush joinery like yours is more contemporary. The bumcheek moulding is a way of getting clean, flush, modern lines while still disguising discrepancies.

Excellent job you're doing by the way!

 

[Chris152]

Thanks both.

Pete - that sounds good, and trimming a fraction off the height of the tenons will take far less effort than planing back the ends of the legs. And I can delay buying that block plane a while longer.

Custard - bumcheek moulding - is that your term?! Brilliant. If I did it I'd have to either use sandpaper and a solid block or a hand plane throughout which could in my case end up looking rather 'rustic'. And I decided to try for the flush fit joinery because the one I was looking at originally had that (mostly) and because i wanted to see how accurate I could be. Drawing the joints full size helped, having followed your link and seen how you do it I'll draw the whole thing next time. I know everybody says it, but it's just becoming clear to me how incredibly precise everything needs to be to get joints looking even remotely ok.

 

[Racers]

I like a small chamfer on all edges, a few strokes with a block plane and job done.

Pete

 

[memzey]

I like a small chamfer on all edges, a few strokes with a block plane and job done.

Pete

Me too. I much prefer the crispness of a chamfer to the dull look of a roundover.

 

[Chris152]

Finished today!

I finished the top with Osmo, and did the substructure with a water-based matt varnish - I tried boiled linseed oil on a scrap and thought it looked too orange.

I was so stressed by the glue-up that I forgot to take pictures. To clamp one of the end sections I used F clamps, the other with quick-grip clamps, and I found the latter way easier to manage. I then clamped the length pieces with sash clamps the next day. I tried Cascamite as suggested and found it way less stressful than PVA, and no doubt it did some compensating for my dodgy mortice/ tenon cuts/ gaps.

To attach the top I drilled 13mm holes and used 4.5 mm diameter screws with M 10 washers.

To be honest I found drilling these holes and screwing into the top the most stressful part of the build - mistakes could easily have ruined it. But it all seems to have gone fine.

There's still some discolouration in the wood buy much less than earlier in the build (it's hard to photograph, but you can make it out, top centre)

but check out my bumcheeks!

I did them with a smoothing plane and the cross-grain with a shoulder plane.
I'm very pleased with it, but I'm not sure I have the courage nor the skills (or strength) to make the full dining table now! I have some leg-length beech ready to go for another coffee table, so I might just stick at that for the moment but this time with a different wood for the top.

If there's anything that's totally buttocks-backwards in the build, let me know? Thanks.

 

[Racers]

Well done, I like that a lot.

Pete

 

[custard]

A very tidy job Chris, crisp and professional. You should be well pleased with that.

=D>

 

[Chris152]

Thanks both, and thanks for everyone's advice along the way, it made a real difference.