Diamond stones

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stuartpaul

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What are the collectives thoughts on the 'best' diamond stones out there?

I'm thinking of changing from water stones to diamond due to some set up and storage issues.
 
I moved from waterstones to diamond plates about a year ago for the same reasons. I bought a set of 3 EZE lap plates and while I find I sharpen more often now because the diamond plates are more accessible I find that I don't get the same mirror polish that I achieved with my waterstones. The biggest bonus for me though is that I never have to worry if my diamond plate is flat or not. As usual it is all swings and roundabouts!
 
DMT are amongst the best but I've had good results in the past with the £20 Axminster combination diamond stone (300/1000 IIRC).
After years of experimentation I use a 300 DMT diamond stone, then go to a 1000 and 6000 Japanese waterstone.

I have a bunch of other DMT diamond stones in various grits, but they get used for fretting guitars, not sharpening tools.
I do need to check out this 'Scary Sharp' stuff though.
 
+1 for the DMT duosharp. They are about half the price in the states. Last time I was over the pond I got a coarse/ extra coarse and a fine/extra fine, together with a bit of honing leather it's a great setup.
 
Diamond stones and then scary sharp works for me.
I should really sell my selection of water stones but sharpening is one of those areas where you never know......
 
If you are looking to change I would consider oil stones; cheapest by far, reliable, long lasting, tried and tested by generations.
 
It's called lateral thinking. Diamond isn't the only alternative.
 
Glynne":3d628axm said:
Diamond stones and then scary sharp works for me.

Yes - the biggest issue with the diamond plates is that you can't get a truly fine one. You can either stay with diamond, and go for a diamond impregnated lap/strop, or switch to another abrasive at the end, having used the diamond plates in the early stages where their speed, flatness and durability have great merit.

BugBear
 
bugbear":1uw1c95b said:
Glynne":1uw1c95b said:
Diamond stones and then scary sharp works for me.

Yes - the biggest issue with the diamond plates is that you can't get a truly fine one. You can either stay with diamond, and go for a diamond impregnated lap/strop, or switch to another abrasive at the end, having used the diamond plates in the early stages where their speed, flatness and durability have great merit.

BugBear

I would disagree - I have several DMT diamond 8 x 3 plates. However, the most frequently used are my extra fine 1200 grit) and Ex Ex fine (around 8000 grit) I sharpen O1, A2 amd PMV-11 irons, all of which shave the hair on my arm after the XX fine plate is used. I don't know if you need to be sharper or acheive a finer polish but for a quick and virtually maintenace free sharpening set up diamond plates work for me.

I bought all of mine from Amazon.com The most expensive one to my door was £65 ( all in) the least expensive was £47 to my door. In fact I have an XX coarse currently somewhere between the US and here as I type.

I have never used waterstones and to be honest, now I have diamond plates I doubt I ever will, no need to.

David
 
Bluekingfisher":g41db6wv said:
bugbear":g41db6wv said:
Glynne":g41db6wv said:
Diamond stones and then scary sharp works for me.

Yes - the biggest issue with the diamond plates is that you can't get a truly fine one. You can either stay with diamond, and go for a diamond impregnated lap/strop, or switch to another abrasive at the end, having used the diamond plates in the early stages where their speed, flatness and durability have great merit.

BugBear

I would disagree - I have several DMT diamond 8 x 3 plates. However, the most frequently used are my extra fine 1200 grit) and Ex Ex fine (around 8000 grit) I sharpen O1, A2 amd PMV-11 irons, all of which shave the hair on my arm after the XX fine plate is used. I don't know if you need to be sharper or acheive a finer polish but for a quick and virtually maintenace free sharpening set up diamond plates work for me.

A quick google gave this helpful table;

2x3.jpg


So the Ex Ex fine is 3 micron. (I'm not sure what they mean by "8000 mesh", it doesn't tally with any grit size chart I can find).

A 6000 JIS waterstone is 2 micron, and a 8000 JIS waterstone is 1.2 micron; common chrome oxide strop pastes are 0.5 micron, and these are commonly used in finishing blades.

I guess we're back to the ever popular (and never answered) question "how sharp is sharp", and its good friend "how sharp is sharp enough".

BugBear

Grit size chart
 
Against my better judgement I'm going to post in a sharpening thread!

I have one of the DMT XXFine stones and despite DMT's mesh claims it doesn't bring my tools to a polish.

But does that actually matter?

I've seen first hand superb craftsmen in Asia using natural water stones that didn't bring their tools to a mirror polish. And I've seen equally superb western craftsmen using oil stones that also didn't deliver a mirror polish. I wonder if there's some psychology at play here, whereby we associate a mirror polish with sharpness and strive for a polish even if it makes little or no difference to the tools real life performance?

I hear the argument that a finely honed edge will be more resistant to breaking down in use, in other words it'll stay sharper for longer. Maybe that's true, or maybe it's just another one of the huge baggage of unsubstantiated mythology that woodworking seems encumbered with.

I don't know.

All I can say is that I've tried using tools honed to 1,000 grit and tools honed to 30,000 grit and if I'm really honest I don't notice a massive difference between them (at least on mild mannered and straight grained timbers) either in cutting ability or in edge retention. I suspect that a really keen edge only lasts for a few swipes of a plane or strokes of a chisel anyway, so the vast majority of our woodworking is actually performed at far lower standards of sharpness.

However, I still go along with the herd mentality and do a final hone at 8,000. That strategy brings the possible benefit of helping identify that I've reached every millimetre of a cambered edge, and also the little pause for re-sharpening before tackling a difficult final cut is useful to steady the nerves and focus. But does it really matter that much? On that I'm less convinced, but unfortunately I'm also too weak willed to throw away all my stones finer than 1,000 grit, and then there's always that beautiful piece of figured timber that probably does benefit for an ultra sharp edge!
 
I think polish behind the edge on both sides (face and bevel) is helpful as this is the area of most friction as the shaving is lifted.
This is traditionally and most easily achieved by stropping on leather, or your hand, (or anything?) with or without polishing compounds.
Polishing and sharpening overlap of course and there is no point where one starts and the other finishes.
 
custard":y0rxfrw9 said:
I hear the argument that a finely honed edge will be more resistant to breaking down in use, in other words it'll stay sharper for longer. Maybe that's true, or maybe it's just another one of the huge baggage of unsubstantiated mythology that woodworking seems encumbered with.

I don't know.

The UK Forest Products Research Lab did some actual tests, which I think is where your suggestion than a badly sharpened blade might break down faster originated. I read of them on Jeff Gorman's helpful site.

http://www.amgron.clara.net/page72.html

One might critique their methodology, but I think it falls outside "mythology".

BugBear
 
Just a quick note of caution when it comes to the coarser diamond stones. When i first got one I thought I would never have to use the grinder again. I reshaped cambers and took all the pitting out of the faces of my older irons. Pretty soon they lose their bite. They still work but not as they did for the first couple of weeks. The same is true of the finer grits, but here it is beneficial as the 1200 grit gives a much better finish after it is a bit worn. My plates are easylap, but from what I have read this is true with DMT as well, I think it is just in the nature of the diamonds.
I am interested in peoples experience with the extra extra fine as I have thought of buying one. I have a 8000 waterstone but rarely use it as I find it too soft and too easy to dig in and gouge the stone. I tend to go from 1200 to a strop.
Paddy
 

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