Decline in Valued Contributors???

[Fergie 307]

I stumbled upon this forum a few years ago, looking for help with a specific woodworking problem. I cant even recall what it was now. I have remained as, although woodworking is not my main interest, i find the breadth of subjects discussed is interesting. I have gained some great information and tips, and hopefully made the occasional helpful post myself. Yes some of the political rants can be irritating, but you dont have to participate. Lets face it we all know where something will go once certain people get involved, and can choose to ingnore it if we wish. Overall i think its pretty good. I have dipped into some others from time to time, but have remained here because I find it more entertaining.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you have a thread like that, don't be reluctant to post an update to your thread and report it yourself with a request that the mods move your new text onto the end of one of your earlier posts. Tell us what post number you'd like it added to.
We have editing rights that enable posts to be combined like this and have done it before for worthwhile threads. It helps readability and some threads are well worth keeping alive as they become a shared reference.

That's all very well, but why in principle should you have to ask to edit your own posts like a naughty schoolboy?
I had a thread which actually relied on additions to the o.p. over a long time. I no longer bother with it.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I stumbled upon this forum a few years ago, looking for help with a specific woodworking problem. I cant even recall what it was now. I have remained as, although woodworking is not my main interest, i find the breadth of subjects discussed is interesting. I have gained some great information and tips,

I have found in the past that sometimes I've learned or gained more from the asides and off tack comments than I have from the body of the thread.

 

[Blackswanwood]

That's all very well, but why in principle should you have to ask to edit your own posts like a naughty schoolboy?
I had a thread which actually relied on additions to the o.p. over a long time. I no longer bother with it.

As I recall it the ability to go back and edit was restricted after a new member posted prolifically, fell out with everyone and stormed off in a huff after going back and deleting the text and pictures in all his posts rendering all the discussions useless.

It may not be something most members would do but there are some pineapples out there.

When I did my workshop build all it took was a pm to @MikeK to update the title and keep it relevant. I didn’t feel like a naughty schoolboy but perhaps schools are different down in darkest Cornwall.

I agree that there is often good stuff when the discussion widens. I also agree that we can all choose to ignore stuff we don’t like. Unfortunately though (and I feel this forum suffers from it more than others) when it gets into “I’m right and you’re wrong tennis match” etc threads become difficult to follow.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

There is an example on one woodworking forum where a member (who is a actually a mod on yet another forum) has gone back over years of posts and deleted all his posts, so making the thread nonsensical - this shows why deletions shouldn't be allowed, but there's no real need to stop alterations and additions so long as they are marked as such. It would be near impossible to police, of course, if the software didn't handle it.

 

[Doug B]

How about a new approach in 2023, can we just accept that everyone is different and is entittled to their views and just be nice to each other,

Steady Roy they crucified a bloke for preaching that sort of wisdom

 

[deema]

Personally, I feel that you should be able to edit / delete anything you have created. There can be a multitude of reasons, but, in the end if you can’t you have in effect given any content you’ve created to the site. For example I recall a chap you used to post about his superb intarsia work that he created. Unfortunately, his designs started to be copied and detract from his work, which was commissions. He deleted all his photos of the intarsia which is understandable. Equally, in the heat of the moment people say things they later regret or may impact their life if it continues to be online. These are extremes, but highlight why having control of your online presence is important.

 

[deema]

I am for free speech, and would not want anything that prohibits the ability to express an opinion. That’s however very different to making pointed or personally comments against individuals and would welcome this behaviour to be moderated.

 

[Ttrees]

As I recall it the ability to go back and edit was restricted after a new member posted prolifically, fell out with everyone and stormed off in a huff after going back and deleting the text and pictures in all his posts rendering all the discussions useless.

It may not be something most members would do but there are some pineapples out there.

When I did my workshop build all it took was a pm to @MikeK to update the title and keep it relevant. I didn’t feel like a naughty schoolboy but perhaps schools are different down in darkest Cornwall.

I agree that there is often good stuff when the discussion widens. I also agree that we can all choose to ignore stuff we don’t like. Unfortunately though (and I feel this forum suffers from it more than others) when it gets into “I’m right and you’re wrong tennis match” etc threads become difficult to follow.

Yes I recall it aswell, it was supposedly a newcomer to the forum, and had some severe chips of his plane irons.
No great wealth of information was either given, nor lost, and no-one was upset about it.
Yet an example was made quite briskly regarding the "whole fiasco"
It's all a bit fishy to say the least.

Still though, we managed to hold onto the edit function for the projects section...
which didn't last long.
IIRC there was some noise goin on of contributes privileges regarding this edit function,
(about the only thing I was concerned about)

but ya'll know it was early days of the overlords, and perhaps whomever was calling the shots
perhaps seen some shiny Lie-Nielsen goodies and thought they hit the goldmine,
when infact they had absolutely no idea we were all a bunch of tight fisted Victor Meldrew's who's
no stranger to old sandpaper

 

[Dolau]

As a newbie to the site and someone coming back to woodworking in retirement I am finding this site very useful and informative but as has been said elsewhere I also find the Timelapse videos on Facebook very good but if you want help or information this is the place I come

 

[Jacob]

That's all very well, but why in principle should you have to ask to edit your own posts like a naughty schoolboy?
I had a thread which actually relied on additions to the o.p. over a long time. I no longer bother with it.

I suppose it's like writing a letter - you don't expect to have it returned so that you can re-write it but you can always send another one with corrections, and if necessary, apologies for misunderstandings!

 

[Geoff_S]

Well, I've just asked a question recently and got very helpful answers.

Just saying

 

[Sideways]

Personally, I feel that you should be able to edit / delete anything you have created. There can be a multitude of reasons, but, in the end if you can’t you have in effect given any content you’ve created to the site. For example I recall a chap you used to post about his superb intarsia work that he created. Unfortunately, his designs started to be copied and detract from his work, which was commissions. He deleted all his photos of the intarsia which is understandable. Equally, in the heat of the moment people say things they later regret or may impact their life if it continues to be online. These are extremes, but highlight why having control of your online presence is important.

A couple of rather frank observations on these points - as a forum member by the way, mods aren't involved in the ownership of the site and the owners make these sort of policy decisions.

The minute you post something on the internet, you've effectively given away control of it. All forums, facebook, instagram, youtube, yada yada all demand the right to do whatever they want with anything you post in return for providing the platform for you to share it. Once up, anyone can copy it so you'll never get control of it back. You've said it in public and don't get to take it back.
I don't think you're wrong, but I don't think it's a realistic expectation.
Personally I don't think that UKW is any worse, and in practice better, than FB, youtube, etc - some of which I refuse to engage with.

The intarsia chap you describe is no different to anyone sharing here. He just learnt a stiff lesson about the way the internet works.

Comments made in the heat of the moment :
Perhaps again the lesson needs to be learnt to engage brain before opening mouth (keyboard).
That's what an apology is for. You err in public so you should apologise in public, When I was a kid, the adults at least tried to teach me some manners. I have little sympathy for bad manners but I would have EVERY sympathy with someone who reported their own post, admitted they made a mistake and asked for it to be deleted if they couldn't do so themselves.

BUT
We all need to express our opinions in a forthright manner from time to time. That's kind of what off topic 2 is for. Access being restricted to contributing members, it is not open to indexing by the search engines and web crawlers (as I understand it). It's a little more private than having a debate in front of millions on prime time TV

Hope this helps....

 

[deema]

@Sideways I take most of your points, other than on all the social media you’ve mentioned you can edit and delete any of your posts, a facility we used to enjoy in this forum and which has been removed, backward step IMO.

 

[Robbo3]

I'll bet that very few read the rules before their first post.
If you don't like the rules don't participate.

 

[deema]

@Robbo3 That all depends upon when you joined!
A forum is only as strong as those who you use it, the content it generates needs to be relevant and interesting with new exciting content being created. Taking a walk on another site where many of those who have disappeared from here appear to have surfaced I’m struck by how rich and varied the content is compared with this forum. What this forum used to enjoy as generated content is now being generated on an alternative.

The original question is about what made these venerated contributors feel they needed to move forums and what can and should be done to help retain existing contributors and attract new and old ones back going forward.

If the rules don’t encourage people to use the forum, the rules should be reviewed.

 

[Rodpr]

I don't know about the good old days of this forum but as a relative newcomer I have to say that I find it really useful and a great resource. I really appreciate those who take the time to share work they are engaged in - often in much more detail than would be found elsewhere - and I think a bit of 'banter' helps to make it feel more like a community. I attend a local 'Men's Shed' where I am one of the youngest members (at 64!) and I often (but not always) bite my tongue when people make casually offensive comments (assuming that everyone shares their values) so it is refreshing to see that there are people who enjoy woodworking who hold a variety of (in the broadest sense) political perspectives. Unfortunately there is nothing new about the idea that challenging 'common sense' views is political but somehow accepting and supporting them isn't!

 

[amongoaks]

... This site has changed since I joined - and not for the better.
If this was a real business, I would review my strategy

i've been managing forums as part of my professional activities for over 20 years. my observations are that:

• forums age and change over time as the membership as a whole goes through an inevitable churn. these are the winds of change and it's just part of forum life. sometimes the change is growth and increased activity, other times it's slowdowns and dry spells. it's not particularly helpful to say this but "that's just life on the forums".
• forums in general, regardless of the subject matter, are in decline. one theory is that the younger crowd prefers more real-time, interactive platforms like Discord and such. personally i don't doubt that BUT i also believe that forums will, over the medium term, enjoy a modest return to popularity. i think that new stuff always gets a lot of attention at first but over time people often find the new stuff isn't as good as the old stuff and they slowly drift back to what they knew and were perfectly happy with. also, the younger crowd -- and everyone else for that matter -- seems to get a little tired of the "real time all the time" addiction and they too start looking for something a little less frenetic and a little more content based. like good old forums for example.

i'd also like to add a few words about editing and/or deletion rights:

• as much as i understand and respect the "my post, my content" argument the truth of the matter, generally speaking, is that if you post on a forum you have donated that content to the forums. it's no longer your property, it's theirs. most forums need that content to remain in place for it to be worthwhile to the readership over time, not to mention the issue of the membership's subsequent contributions to that content. in my experience the forum moderators should be open to special requests -- removal of sensitive or damaging content for instance -- but, for the sake of the forum, material posted should remain in place intact. in other words no free access to edits or deletions.
• if the forum management does decide to allow free access to edits and deletions they need to prepare themselves for A LOT of maintenance work cleaning things up after a spate of edits/deletions renders the remaining material incomplete at best or useless at worst. this can be a hugely time consuming and frustrating task. having done it i wouldn't wish it on anyone because in my experience what you're really doing is slowly helping dig the forum's grave: forum members REALLY don't like it when the material they've read and/or contributed to is whittled away over time completely beyond their control. they tend to give up and move on.

of course all of this depends on the type of material the forum attracts. perhaps for something ephemeral like political discussions, cryptocurrency or the stock markets, an enduring record of past discussions is not particularly useful over time. for the material that typically appears here on ukworkshop though i would say that old material is new wisdom for anyone that cares to search for and read it. in other words what has been accumulated over time, and the ability to discuss it, is pretty much the site's money in the bank (loosely speaking).

ok, well enough of that. (bows and retreats)

 

[deema]

@amongoaks That’s a really insightful post, thank you.
In the years I’ve been active in this forum, and it might be I’m just not very observant, I think the number of deletions has been negligible when it was available. The number of times the same questions come up is huge so it would appear most users ask first search the forum for old post almost never.

 

[deema]

I’d be really interested knowing from the Mods / owner why the edit / delete function was suddenly removed. A rational always helps make accepting a bitter pill easier to swallow.