Cutting tenon cheeks.

[No skills]

Hello all,

I might have a project to make that would require a fair number of hand cut tenons, I would like to get a reasonable saw for doing the rip cuts down the cheeks - in the past I have managed to split some and pare to suit but obviously you can't always do that.
Are there any saws that I can buy new off the shelf without messing with to do the job? Buying an old tenon saw and learning to sharpen is not really an option with the time constraints I have atm.
I don't mind if it's push or pull cut, just want something with the right teeth and sharp
I'm hoping for something around the £50-60 mark, is that a pipe dream???

Thanks.

 

[AndyT]

If you are comfortable using a pull-saw, the Huntley Oak Saw comes heartily recommended by Jimi, eg here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/any-old-saw-and-plane-t84249.html and should fit your budget for a saw which comes new, sharp and ready to use. (He's also posted a picture somewhere of using it to cut into a lignum vitae bowling ball, so they are definitely tough!)

I was so convinced by his posts that I bought one, and it is good, but having managed to get an old tenon saw or two into good working order and filed rip - which makes all the difference, I believe - I have concentrated on English style saws and tried to get my technique right on those.

 

[John15]

Both http://www.workshopheaven.com and http://www.woodworkersshop.co.uk have some good saws.

John

 

[PAC1]

Try Thomas Flinn http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/aca ... -SAWS.html

 

[Beau]

I realise these may look a bit cheap but I have been using these for some years and found them superb. I own a Pax tennon and Japanese pull saws but find myself reaching for the Irwin for most jobs http://www.irwin.com/tools/browse/handsaws/pull-saws The APTC copy is a very poor imitation when comes to cutting performance.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Try to suit the saw to the size of the tenons. There seems to be a bit of a fashion in some circles for big tenon saws - 18" long or so. If you're making entrance doors with tenons 3" to 4" deep, a saw like that would make sense. For a lot of chair work, tenons are rarely more than about 1" to 1 1/2" long, and a dovetail saw would cut those. For the general run of furniture work, something about 12" to 14" long, with about 3" of blade below the spine and about 10 to 12 tpi rip cut, should cover most eventualities.

Whilst you say you don't want to be bothered with refurbishing vintage saws (fair enough!) it might be worth bearing in mind that one of the easiest saw 'conversions' is refiling a cross-cut saw to rip, provided the tooth spacing is what's needed. You don't even need a fancy saw vice; just clamp the blade firmly between two battens in the face vice. Aim to get all the teeth the same height, and just a little bit of rake to the front of each tooth, and even a bargain basement 'tenon saw' could be made into a very effective tenon saw (proper!) in about half an hour. It may not even be necessary to reset the teeth, since quite a few new saws come with rather generous set.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

I realise these may look a bit cheap but I have been using these for some years and found them superb. I own a Pax tennon and Japanese pull saws but find myself reaching for the Irwin for most jobs http://www.irwin.com/tools/browse/handsaws/pull-saws The APTC copy is a very poor imitation when comes to cutting performance.

Hello,

In fact the Irwin hardpoint tenon saws in Western style are really quite good. Cheap enough to buy one and a good second hand saw to refurb at your leisure ready for next time. We use them in school and the kids get on with them really well. They are a bit light, but good and sharp, so don't really need as much weight, and stay sharp for ages. Will do rip and cross cuts. Not pretty, but efficient. Footprint tenon saws are about on your budget, Axminster are stocking them online. Handles not pretty, but blades good. Will need resharpening eventually. I have one and will make a new handle for it eventually. In this price price bracket most resharpenable saws have ugly handles, I think most of the cost of nicer looking saws is in the handle.

Mike.

 

[G S Haydon]

I'd second Mike's advice for a fus free, good value way into saws.

 

[No skills]

Plenty of food for thought here folks, thank you.

Much to my shame I do have some old saws that I have collected over time with the intention of sorting and sharpening, in fact it's one of the little goals I have in life BUT time is against me and I would rather be making than tinkering.

A few random thoughts..

The Huntley oak looks very interesting, a possibility.
Won't be buying a pax, I think their made to order and I have one already
Irwin, hmm I brought one a few weeks ago - maybe the 12" I'll have to look, I was hoping it was going to be as good as my old sharksaws I have had over the years. It's ok but not great, I did try a rip cut on my work bench leg rails and wasn't impressed.

Having said that about the irwin perhaps I'll try the little dovetail one (dirt cheap so little to loose), as CC said I should be sizing the saw to the tenon. I think most of the oak I will be cutting tenons on will be around 1 1/2" x 2".

I want to start prepping the timber this weekend sometime, I'll pick up the little irwin dovetail and give it a try - my findings will find their way here soon..

Thanks all.

 

[Beau]

The 12" one is what I would have suggested. Surprised you didn't like yours.

 

[woodbrains]

The 12" one is what I would have suggested. Surprised you didn't like yours.

Hello,

Our School saws are 10 and 12 inch Irwin and have been well received by pupils and staff.

I don't know how much better you expect a saw to be, to be honest. I could understand if you said the handle was uncomfortable, or causing lack of control because it wasn't shaped to fit you, but the blades are not greatly better on saws costing 150 quid. Degrees better, yes, but not enough to make a tenon cheek cutable where it wasn't with the Irwin. Japanese pull saws are faster because the kerf is thinner, in the main. However, the Irwin jap saws are cross cuts, in fact. The narrow kerfs of Japanese saws mean correcting a wandering cut is difficult/impossible, so unless you are au fait with them, Western saws can be less demanding. The Japanese blades can be brittle, too and easy to lose teeth, unless handled with delicacy. TBH a resharpenable saw in your budget such as a Footprint, is no better on ergonomics or aesthetics and in my opinion does not cut quite as well!

Mike.

 

[No skills]

I've not used any 'posh' Japanese saws ( ), only the old sharksaws - the teeth on the finer ones were certainly brittle as I found to my expense but you get used to that (you can feel the money draining from your wallet when you break a tooth ).

The 12" irwin pull saw I got the other weekend seems to have a wider blade than what I have used before in a similar size, I say seems as I have no proof of that. It just didn't seem as sharp either, Ok on crosscut but it almost seemed to bounce rather than cut when trying to rip.
I will try it on some different wood this weekend.

 

[woodbrains]

The 12" irwin pull saw I got the other weekend seems to have a wider blade than what I have used before in a similar size, I say seems as I have no proof of that. It just didn't seem as sharp either, Ok on crosscut but it almost seemed to bounce rather than cut when trying to rip.
I will try it on some different wood this weekend.

Hello,

Did you mean 12" Irwin push saw ie Western tenon saw? Otherwise we might be talking at cross purposes.
If you do mean tenon saw then:
I don't know what skill level woodwork you are at, so don't be offended if I ask if you are cutting the tenon cheeks right? I suppose you might have a dud saw, they are mass produced, after all and duds crop up. But are you trying to cut straight down the tenon cheek, with the wood vertical in the vice? This would account for bouncing. I might be telling me granny how to stuck eggs here, but cut at 45 degrees down the tenon cheek then 45 the other way, leaving a triangle of cheek left. Then cut straight down the triangle to the shoulder line. It should make things easier. You should be able to cut whatever wood you like, within reason, so don't fixate too much on different types of wood.

Mike.

 

[No skills]

No its a pullsaw. Skill level is low, but yes I would cut the 45's first then straight down to finish.

 

[woodbrains]

No its a pullsaw. Skill level is low, but yes I would cut the 45's first then straight down to finish.

Hello,

In which case, it is the hardpoint tenon saw I've been recommending. The Irwin pull saws are, as I said in an earlier post, actually crosscut saws, which is why you may find it not optimal for tenon cheeks.

Mike.

 

[toast]

i bought one of the irwin tenon saws after recommendations on here a while back but wasnt that keen on it.
i love the chinese saw i bought though, i use this one http://woodworkprojects.co.uk/shop.htm# ... ory=162167

 

[woodbrains]

i bought one of the irwin tenon saws after recommendations on here a while back but wasnt that keen on it.
i love the chinese saw i bought though, i use this one http://woodworkprojects.co.uk/shop.htm# ... ory=162167

Hello,

Japanese, in fact, not Chinese. And it is a crosscut.

I'm glad you get on with these, I love Japanese saws myself, and Japanese rip saws are somewhat rarer in Britain, for some reason, but are mind blowingly fast and accurate, worlds apart from Japanese crosscut saws. If you did not get on with the Irwin tenon saw, perhaps tenon saws are not your thing. Besides the irwin's lousy looks, cut wise they cut as well as any tenon saw should. There is a bit of practice involved, too.

Mike.

 

[toast]

i just like the finer cut and finish, i think the extra length of the handle aids keeping the cut straight.
il have to have a bit of a practice with the irwin, im not bothered by looks as long as i can use it.