Cutlery Box

[SteveF]

next project for my sins
a new cutlery box ( old one is stained plywood falling apart)
this is for the "special" set and not everyday use
sort of a jewelry box design with a lift up lid, top tray and a pull out drawer
anyone made one?
due to weight of contents do i need modern metal drawer runners? or will I get away with hardwood runners?
plan is to use reclaimed mahogany

Steve

 

[Glynne]

Sorry for the stock answer on practicalities but it will all depend on what you will have in the lift out tray, the space underneath and then the drawer.
Are you talking about 4 / 6 / 8 or 12 ?
Perhaps sort out your cutlery into how you (or yours) wants it stored and take it from there. So if the drawer will only store cake forks, you won't need metal runners.

 

[SteveF]

12 \ 96
no lift out tray
hinged lid with nothing in the lid
knives in top layer
spoons \ sporks in 1 drawer
forks in another drawer
i should have asked permission \ specs before posting (which I have now done)

Steve

 

[custard]

Very nice project, small scale but lots of technical challenges. Exactly the sort of thing that allows a woodworker to build up their skills quickly and economically.

I've never made a cutlery box, but I've made plenty of similar items that incorporate all the necessary joinery, I'll see if I've got any relevant photos on file.

One specific question, do you plan on lining it with felt or suede, something that's commonly done for top end cutlery storage? The reason I ask is that I've noticed many people make boxes but I rarely see any that are properly lined, or if they are then it's with flocking which rarely delivers a premium result. So I've often thought it might be useful to post a WIP showing how I go about lining boxes.

Mahogany would be an excellent choice and no, you don't need metal runners, a properly made traditional drawer is perfectly capable of dealing with at least 50lb loads.

Good luck, and once again, congratulations on choosing such an excellent project!

 

[MusicMan]

I for one would find a WIP on lining drawers or trays very useful, Custard.

Keith

 

[custard]

Here's something I made that might be vaguely similar to what you have in mind. This was a Pearwood box for shoe cleaning materials. It's not quite finished in these photos, and is shown resting on some T&G boards for sizing.

This is a jewellery box I made that may incorporate some other of the joinery details for your project, such as a lift out tray and a morticed in lock with a shop made escutcheon plate. I've made loads of similar items so I'm fairly familiar with the practical problems that need resolving in a project of this nature.

I'll dig around and find some photos illustrating the lining process and post them as a WIP.

Don't hesitate to ask if you need any help with your cutlery box.

 

[SteveF]

Thankyou all for encouragement
never thought about lining, but I think you may be right custard
would love to see a WIP on that please
lots to think about
the jewelry box idea was more in mind
I was going to avoid the lift out tray so not have to find space for it when in use
I will have same issue with the drawers I guess, so need to make sure I dont utilise the back of them

Steve

 

[SteveF]

I have 12mm thickness in mind for this project, is that a suitable design feature?
the 12mm is so i can fit quadrant hinges for the lid which are 8mm wide
the cutlery set is not the crown jewels, but I think this is my 1 and only opportunity to make something to be proud of
I am also considering of putting spalted beech set into the lid, is that a yes or no...no? just to give it a contrast to the mahogany
it seems that "decent" hardware is extremely costly (including the high cost of a downcut router bit), so if I am to continue planning this project I really want to get it right

Steve

 

[custard]

I have 12mm thickness in mind for this project, is that a suitable design feature?
the 12mm is so i can fit quadrant hinges for the lid which are 8mm wide
the cutlery set is not the crown jewels, but I think this is my 1 and only opportunity to make something to be proud of
I am also considering of putting spalted beech set into the lid, is that a yes or no...no? just to give it a contrast to the mahogany
it seems that "decent" hardware is extremely costly (including the high cost of a downcut router bit), so if I am to continue planning this project I really want to get it right

Steve

-12mm is an excellent thickness for this project, plenty strong enough without looking over engineered and clunky
-very farsighted of you to think about hinge width in advance, you'd be surprised how many woodworkers crash into that particular "gotcha"!
-spalted anything is always a bit risky, it can be stunning, equally it can be spongey, punky, and a complete pain to work with. It's only my opinion, but good quality Mahogany is pretty much the king of timbers, if you've got a stock of decent reclaimed Mahogany then why use anything else?
-quadrant hinges are tricky to get right, it's usually only after you've fitted three or four pairs that you start to get proficient and confident. Butt hinges (or the new generation of "smart" or "neat" hinges) with a built in 95 degree stop are available and they're much, much simpler to fit.
-regarding your separate post about dentil moulding, to help the design process maybe consider a simple interior "maquette", just a basic mock up from thick card? Personally I'd think plain fore and aft mahogany dividers (rather than trying to "nest" each cutlery item in complicated shaped lateral dividers) would be both more elegant and simpler to execute.

Good luck!

 

[SteveF]

I was looking at the smart hinge from Andrew Crawford
the spalted beech slab I have laying around is 4' x 2' x 4" and is stable figured and most important is solid
I was thinking of routing around the edge of it to take the mitred lid so it has a "raised" panel above and below (poor description sorry)
I have googled maquette with poor results, but read it as a test design to see how it works before committing myself
seems like I will spend more time planning this than build time, not an issue tbh as is purely hobby and smartie points
the mahogany i have is only 60mm width so plenty of chances to screw up the jointing for this project
about time I made:
a featherboard for tablesaw
finish my router table & fence
build a thicknessing sled for router
actually make something rather than build a workshop of unused tools
and stop talking

Steve

 

[Glynne]

If you're thinking of Andrew Crawford for your hinges, he also does pig suede for linings and adhesive backed card to save you messing about with double sided tape. The hinges aren't cheap but are amazing quality.

 

[SteveF]

If you're thinking of Andrew Crawford for your hinges, he also does pig suede for linings and adhesive backed card to save you messing about with double sided tape. The hinges aren't cheap but are amazing quality.

perfect


Steve

 

[SteveF]

a few more questions if i can

box corner joints?
I see a few options:
dovetails...not for my first box project
mitred with either a vertical spine or a few horizontal spines, i assume not easiest option for initial glue up\clamping
finger joints...I think I can manage this, I even remember getting an I box jig cheap if I can find it
rebated...simple but weak? could be backed up with some contrasting dowels
bare faced tongues.....again easy but weak?
we then get to the other options
square corner "legs" butt jointed...seems you could have enough meat to hide a domino or biscuit
corner legs rebated out to hide the joint

my head has melted, so I was after some opinions, peoples thoughts

another question for Custard if I may?
I would like to use "real" wood rather than ply for the drawer bottoms
how do you deal with movement if you line the bottom
I am sure I have read enough to deal with the base movement but just unsure of lining movement

Steve

 

[Glynne]

If you have a router table a "corner lock joint" works really well. You can get the bit from Wealden's for ~ £20 and it will obviously come in useful for future boxes / drawers. I posted a thread about the set up ages ago, I'm sure I can find it if you are interested.9

 

[dickm]

Not much use to the OP, but a "cutlery box" was one of the first complete items we made in junior school woodwork back in about 1950. Basically just four sides joined with open M&T at each corner and a divider morticed into the ends. Though I say it myself, mine was coming on nicely until another lad pinched one of my side pieces and rounded over the edges of the tenons! Still, with hide glue (heated on the open coal fire in the workroom - HSE where were you?) it held together and is still in use as a container for spice jars in one of the kitchen cupboards.

 

[SteveF]

I seem to remember reading your post, but can't find it
I do have a router table (when I finish it)
so is definitely an option

Steve

 

[Glynne]

This is the Wealden's bit : -

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums...ut-how-to-set-it-up-t82251.html?hilit= Corner

Rutlands do a slightly different one but given the similarity in price, I would opt for Wealden's

 

[SteveF]

I have made slow progress with this project...3 days to get 3 glued boards for back and 2 sides (I now understand why small boxes fetch high prices)
typical weekend warrior struggle to complete this
my boards are 30mm short of needed dimensions so will need to use corner posts to get the small extra size
I will attempt sliding dovetails for this task
I also do not have enough to make a lid so will go with a contrasting inset
i have built beds and cots and my workshop...but for some reason this is my most ambitious \ time consuming project to date
have to say the prospect of finishing this is giving steepness nights
not sure is worthy of a WIP as will not be cabinet maker quality
but so much fun to push past my skill grade

Steve

 

[custard]

my boards are 30mm short of needed dimensions so will need to use corner posts to get the small extra size

I also do not have enough to make a lid so will go with a contrasting inset

Is it Mahogany that you're short of?

 

[SteveF]

my boards are 30mm short of needed dimensions so will need to use corner posts to get the small extra size

I also do not have enough to make a lid so will go with a contrasting inset

Is it Mahogany that you're short of?

Yes, but not a big issue
I have plenty of other timbers so can manage to do something

Steve