Cooking Beef at 55 degrees.

[Bm101]

I'm not a great one for the telly tbh. Nothing snobby or intellectual, (I'm a windowcleaner!), most of the time it just bores the a*** out of me. Happened to walk in to the front room yesterday morning and Tom Kerridge was doing one of them Sunday morning cookery shows. From the little I know of fine food and the world of Chefs, when I've seen him doing cooking on TV I think 'My God that looks mustard'. No nonsense food but done really really well.
So anyway, he's cooking a bit of sirloin beef. He coats it in black treacle and water and lets it soak for a day or so. Seals the outside in a pan then whacks it in the oven at 55 degrees. 45 minutes he says. Shadddap I'm thinking. But you can leave it in as long as you need he says because you will never overcook it at 55 degrees. My jaw drops a little. Then it sinks in. I've been overcooking meat my whole life. (Apart from steak )
I also picked up a tip or two on roasties and yorkies.
Just the four of us for Christmas Dinner this year, family coming over later etc. I was after a goose, Mrs wanted turkey. Sod that. I'm going up my local Butchers to get some sirloin. 55 degrees. I've had a google and realised there's a whole world of info about this and I never had a clue.

Reason for posting was I know there's plenty of foodies on here. Whaddaya think? Experiences to share? Not long now! God I love cooking Christmas dinner. Bottle of nice red on the go. Bit of music. Everyone's happy.
So come on! lets have your tips!
Garlic carrots?
Port Gravy!

Woop Woop!

 

[timbo614]

Um, 55 degrees isn't very hot. Not hot enough to kill bugs (requires 60 deg. ) if there are any.

 

[NazNomad]

The collagen that makes up most of the connective tissue of meats start to break down and dissolve at around the same temperature that bacteria like E coli die in numbers deemed safe - also known as the pasteurisation temperature. That is around 55C - cooked at that temperature for given amounts of time meat can be relied on to get less tough and more healthy. It still holds oxygen, and its juices do not evaporate much: so more flavour and colour will be retained.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... es-lowered

I wouldn't worry about killing bugs in beef, it doesn't have many that are harmful. Improper handling is more likely to give you the squits than if it's still got a pulse.

 

[Bm101]

Interesting Naz. I'd be very careful feeding my kids slow cooked chicken, beef on the otherhand.... I cook my steaks.... well I don't cook them I sear the sides. Blue doesn't cover it and I've never once been ill. I'm still on for beef sirloin Christmas day.

 

[timbo614]

I eat Rare-ish steak too but always though the outside had to be heated for a short period to kill off any surface contamination due to handling? Also 55 is not far above the sometimes reported heat-wave temps in some places! I'm sure I can remember 52 in the sun somewhere?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Slow cooked doesn't mean uncooked. I do all roast meats slowly, some slower than others. Much as I prefer steaks on the rare side, I've never been keen on roasts (certainly not duck or lamb) done like it - especially when the meat is used the day after, cold. I get some wide foil, parcel up the joint and stick it in for about eight hours at about 70c - 75c. Then I open it up, drain the liquid off (unscorched, it makes better gravy) and return to the oven at a high temperature for half an hour or so to crisp the outside. Freshly ground Chinese five spice for pork, a paste of 1/3 chilli or cayenne, 1/3 garlic and 1/3 anchovies for lamb (which is "speared" and the holes stuffed), and a tbs of hot horseradish, a tbs of English mustard and a tbs of garlic for beef.

 

[Racers]

Slow cooked shoulder of lamb is wonderful.

Pete

 

[Fitzroy]

Seen Heston seal in a vacuum bag and cook in water bath at similar temp, although 60 degC I think. 60 degC is also min temp for hot water supplies due to legionella regs. So guess most of the nasties die about those temps.

F.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Might be wise to do a practice run before unleashing it on a special occasion. It usually takes me two or three goes to really nail a new recipe or technique.

Mind you, I might just be a damn awful cook....

 

[rafezetter]

I'm not a great one for the telly tbh. Nothing snobby or intellectual, (I'm a windowcleaner!), most of the time it just bores the a*** out of me. Happened to walk in to the front room yesterday morning and Tom Kerridge was doing one of them Sunday morning cookery shows. From the little I know of fine food and the world of Chefs, when I've seen him doing cooking on TV I think 'My God that looks mustard'. No nonsense food but done really really well.
So anyway, he's cooking a bit of sirloin beef. He coats it in black treacle and water and lets it soak for a day or so. Seals the outside in a pan then whacks it in the oven at 55 degrees. 45 minutes he says. Shadddap I'm thinking. But you can leave it in as long as you need he says because you will never overcook it at 55 degrees. My jaw drops a little. Then it sinks in. I've been overcooking meat my whole life. (Apart from steak )
I also picked up a tip or two on roasties and yorkies.
Just the four of us for Christmas Dinner this year, family coming over later etc. I was after a goose, Mrs wanted turkey. Sod that. I'm going up my local Butchers to get some sirloin. 55 degrees. I've had a google and realised there's a whole world of info about this and I never had a clue.

Reason for posting was I know there's plenty of foodies on here. Whaddaya think? Experiences to share? Not long now! God I love cooking Christmas dinner. Bottle of nice red on the go. Bit of music. Everyone's happy.
So come on! lets have your tips!
Garlic carrots?
Port Gravy!

Woop Woop!

Sounds good - should I bring some wine?

 

[gregmcateer]

My brother likes a bit of cooking. He's been experimenting with a 'sous vide' he bought on tinternet. Gets some amazing results - very juicy meat and flash fries steaks in, well, a flash.

It's how the restaurants do it, so they can prep the steaks in advance, then just brown them in the pan seconds before serving. Here's a link with some info on it, if you scroll down a bit;

(I've no connection with this supplier - just found it as a useful link);

https://anovaculinary.com/what-is-sous-vide/?gclid=CIn0y6eL8NACFdW4GwodrYYEIg

HTH

Greg

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I have seen a fillet of beef rolled round, wrapped well in clingfilm and cooked this way, I forget now who did it. The film was taken off, the cylinder of beef cut into rounds then the ends oiled and put on a griddle to sear.

 

[Blister]

A friend of mine regularly ate blue / rare steak until the day he went for a poo and had something hanging out of his bum , Trip to A&E for the removal of a 6 foot long tape worm :shock:

He now has his steak well done , took him some time before he even went near steak again

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Have a look at information surrounding the concept of sous vide. It's what all the top chefs use (or the oven equivalent). Most people don't realise that top chefs have been using this "secret" for decades. The idea has already been mooted here which is that if you keep the temperature high enough to take out the bugs but low enough to prevent the proteins from becoming "tough" then you have the perfect compromise because the meat remains tender but safe.

A Sous vide is nothing more than a water bath kept at a very accurate temperature. The meat is sealed in plastic (like shrink wrap type heat sealing) so the water doesn't touch it and left for the amount of time it takes for the very low heat to penetrate through to the centre of the meat. The upper cooking time almost doesn't matter (as you say) because it will never be overcooked. The lower cooking time is important or the heat wont penetrate. The cooking time/temperature is therefore dependent on two things: The thickness of the joint and the nature of the meat ie which bugs do you need to kill. Obviously in chicken and pork, the naturally native bugs are significantly more virulent for food poisoning than in beef or lamb, both which can be eaten rare (beef and lamb) or raw (beef ie steak tartare). Chicken and pork can be slow cooked and benefit brilliantly from it (by slow cooked I mean in a sous vide at extremely low temperatures) but the criticality of cooking all the way to the middle of the joint is matched only by your desire to not be throwing up for 48 hours

In the sous vide universe, there are tables documenting the correct temperatures for a given thickness of meat and fish types as guides. A whole salmon done in a sous vide is incidentally, one of the most delicious things it's possible to pass through your cake-hole

 

[sunnybob]

I spent over 20 years of my life installing and repairing catering equipment. I have known many instances of shops being closed by environmental health because they were not keeping food at a temperature EXCEEDING 75c.

I had to testify once because they wanted to close a shop as their holding display cabinet could not reach this temp.
The best known chicken chain who's name consists of only three letters insist their chicken reaches 83c before it can be sold.

I wont eat any meats that have obviously been undercooked.

 

[AJB Temple]

I am a fan of slow cooking and SV too. Beef is perfectly OK raw (steak tartare) if prepped from a fresh cut fillet as there can be no bacteria on the inside and this is why a blue steak poses no heath risk - outside is seared which kills and surface bacteria (but doesn't seal anything in - that is a myth) and the inside is clean.

A handy tool to have is a Thermapen. Instant read temperature probe. This will give you super reliable temperature control.

Sous Vide steak works very well for BBQ. Meat vac packed and slow cooked to rare, then briefly shown a hot BBQ. I use a Big Green Egg when I am feeling in the mood for some charcoal smoky flavour, or a Weber gas barbecue if I am in a hurry.

Slow cooking a rolled Sirloin will work very well for Christmas. I have one in the fridge now with fat larded around the top and bottom, rolled and ready to go! It was meant for Sunday lunch but I got sidetracked.

It also works well to slow cook a chicken in the oven at low temperature. I often put a chicken in with the oven turned down to 80 degrees (use an over thermometer so you know what is going on) and cook for six to eight hours. Check the juices run clear and it will be perfect meat: cooked, juicy, not tough and dry and stringy. No need to rest as it is already at the right temperature.

 

[Keith 66]

My other half is a food safety officer,we would not eat sou vide at any price no matter who cooked it.
Giles coren had it right when he commented on a sou vide pigeon breast dish he was served, "an awful raw rubbery purple schlong swimming in insipid sauce".

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes. Chicken cooked slowly with a little sumac and a lemon ...
It is the fascination with rare meat that can cause problems - one TV chef even went so far as to say pork should be served pink, although traditionally it was well cooked not because of bacterial contamination but because of parasites, which are uncommon now.
If Giles' pigeon was cooked it wouldn't have been purple - if you are to eat undercooked meat it doesn't much matter by which method it is undercooked - there is no digestive requirement for any protein to cooked. If there were the slightest risk involved in sous vide in a commercial environment I'd have thought it would be banned - the powers that be can't see a bandwagon without jumping on it.
The comments about the bacteria being on the outside of the meat is of course correct, this is why the bad cases of food poisoning tend to come from minced beef products and sausages - it's all mashed together. The word botulism comes from botulus - Latin for sausage.
As an aside - I remember an interview on the radio with Prof. Sir hugh Pennington concerning a government hygiene hand washing initiative where he said that actually it made little difference, because every major food poisoning outbreak in his career had been caused by bad meat storage conditions. The last outbreak I remember when I was working in that environment some years ago wasn't meat at all - it was Spanish lettuce - there was drought in Spain so the nice clean Spanish farmers decided to water the things with raw sewage. Nothing much was made of it - mustn't offend the EU, must we?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A friend of mine regularly ate blue / rare steak until the day he went for a poo and had something hanging out of his bum , Trip to A&E for the removal of a 6 foot long tape worm :shock:

He now has his steak well done , took him some time before he even went near steak again

My grandmother told me that she remembered in the 1930s people being starved and meals being put close in front of them to try to temp the worm out for food. She didn't ever tell me whether it worked, though. It would be interesting to see how they knew that one was 6' - they break into tiny segments about 1/4" long.

 

[whiskywill]

The word botulism comes from botulus - Latin for sausage.

Close but no prize. The Latin for sausage is farcimen, from which the word farce, meaning forcemeat or stuffing, is derived. A botulum is a type of spiced sausage.