contemporary amateur woodworking

[nabs]

contemporary woodworking

OP - I am trying to learn how to use my old stanley plane (inherited from my Dad) but I am having trouble getting my test piece of wood flat.

Bob - first things first, this is an old plane, have you checked the sole? The sole needs to be completely flat. An acceptable result can be achieved by an amateur but you will need a certified engineers reference plate made from marble (rrp $500)

Chuck - actually the first thing to do is to replace the cutter - modern cutters are thicker* and therefore better. I recommend PMV12 which has just come on the market, but you MUST get the cryogenically heated version (rrp $90 each)

* note may not fit in your old plane.

Alf - I am just a beginner but I 100% agree with Chris Scholtz on this one - when you factor in the cost of your time it is simply not worth the effort getting an old plane to work.

Bib - I 100% agree. I am just starting out and I have just ordered the entire set of bench planes from LM (rrp $4000) - you do not need to get everything at once, and I will be getting the full set of joinery planes as and when I need them.

Tom - I struggled like you for ages until I got the full set of LY bevel up planes - these are much more versatile than BD planes and leave a better fininsh, IMO (although I have not actually used them yet). The are also slightly cheaper than the LMs - $3500

**** - you don't actually need a new plane at all as long as you are prepared to put in some fettling time and you know how to avoid the bad ones*. They are no longer cheap though! When I was a boy I could buy an entire set of second hand Record bench planes for £2 but now Paul Setller has jumped on the bandwaggon you can't get one for less than £14. Insane!

*this takes years of practice and would take too long to explain on a forum like this

Fred - I think the above posters have missed a fundamental point - SHARP. You can't do woodwork without sharp tools. There are a variety of sharpening systems out there but I recommend (as a minimum) 6 ozymandis infused watersones (ideally japanese shaptons) going from 500 microns to 70000. I finish up with 1u micron paste on a granite surface (Note that despite what you might hear, you CAN reuse the reference plate mentioned above, just don't forget to keep one side clean for periodically checking that your soles are still flat - the paste will mark the other surface and invalidate your measurements otherwise!). You can get budget versions of these stones made in Europe or the US for about £100 each, but the best ones come direct from Japan. NB on no account skip a grit - this may seem like a time-saver but will almost certainly ruin your tools.

Billlybob - you can save yourself a lot of time an effort with a planer/thicknesser/chopper/sander combination machine - I have a couple of Hitachi 9 litre models and they are indispensable. Like many people my 'shop' is actually in my garage and the great things about these machines is they are only 18' wide which means I still have plenty of room for my Chevrolet cruiser and my wife's racing yacht!

OP - thanks for advice. I have taken up crotchet.

All - DO NOT even consider crotchet without getting yourself a set of diamond coated laminated steel knitting spikes (continues for another 94 pages)

PS I am guilty of being a least one of the characters above

 

[Geoff_S]

You're a very bad man

 

[Sideways]

Buy this superduper £5000 carbon fibre bike - it's a whole 1Kg lighter than yours
or
Put some effort in, get fitter, lose a Kg and achieve the same effect for "free"

Is it a man thing ? Can they see us coming a mile off ?
If it's disposable income then I guess we can waste it any way it makes us happy

 

[John Brown]

I confess I had no idea planes were functional tools, I thought they were simply items to be collected, fettled and displayed.

 

[Fitzroy]

A lovely caricature of the situation, made me smile. I’m of the opinion that this type of conversation is as much a result of the modern life and living under the interweb as it is the actual subject. I’m on a few quite varied forums and similar shaped conversations take place on each of them.

F.

 

[Eric The Viking]

OP - I am trying to learn how to use my old stanley plane (inherited from my Dad) but I am having trouble getting my test piece of wood flat.

Of course you are right, but (at face value) it is actually a tricky question for anyone to give the best answer to the person who posted the question.

Is he/she:

• poor or rich,
• just mucking about or dead keen,
• somewhere near a woodworking course, or on a Pacific island (with broadband, obviously),
• bright and able to learn, or a total plank,
• trying to be as traditional as possible (like her dad), or a potential Festool groupie?

Besides which, sharpening threads can always be seen as entertainment. I'm old enough to remember Till Death Us Do Part on 'telly.

E.


.

 

[nabs]

quite right Eric, I am afraid us tyros have much to answer for on this front. The internet is like Duff beer, it is both the cause of, and solution to, all our problems!
Having said that, Forums would indeed be much less entertaining without these type of discussions.

Incidentally, The OP has been in touch :

OP Hi again. I did eventually make a crotchet elephant which my wife said was quite good:

but on reflection when I look at the work of the masters:

"bee" unsigned, school of Krenov (circa 1975)

..I think the investment in equitment and time needed to get anywhere near this standard is just too much for me to commit to at this stage in my life (young kids, stressful job etc).

Back to woodworking! Unfortunately I had to sell my set of Rob Corkscrew fishhead chisels to pay for the knitting spikes. I probably lost a couple of hundred quid on the deal but at least I still have my novelty baseball cap (included free with the chisels - 'I heart dovetails') and I kept my test piece of wood too. Will let you know how I get on!

 

[novocaine]

you missed out setting the cap iron as tight as possible and to be careful not to the thin to sole to much. (maybe one about all this modern steel technology and how woodies are so much better)

a wonderful descent in to the mirth of modern day life and all thanks to this amazing technology we call the internet. Isn't life wonderful.

 

[nabs]

OP - hi again! Good news, I have managed to sharpen my plane "iron"!! In the end I got myself 3 diamonte-briquette hones as these were getting great reviews on Amazon and were reasonably priced. I am very happy with them and I'm pretty sure the iron is sharp as it can 'cut hair' (and I have a bald forearm and left thigh to prove it!!!)

I have also managed to get my piece of wood reasonably flat so I think I am making good progress. One concern is that my plane sole may not be flat enough (see posts above). I bought a straight edge that was on sale (£9 Starburst inc from Aliburger.com) and when I hold it against the sole it looks like there is a slight holow between and toe and the tail. Is this something I should be worried about?

Stan - you should send it back immediately and start posting complaints in the strongest possible terms all over the internet explaining how the manufacture is incompotent. Completely unacceptable.

OP - unfortunately it is quite old - I think my dad got it in the 60s - and I am not sure I can find the receipt.

Beyonce - You might want to consider a Japanese smoother (tamagotchi) - these are specially ground with a hollow between the toe and tail and immediately before the mouth as this reduces the friction coefficient by 25%. What most westerners do not realize is that these planes get shorter in use (and this is BY DESIGN) and therefore the hollows need to be maintained over time. This is accomplished with a special hammer (kung-pao) that is used to perform a series of small percussion (nicinackinoo) blows around the toe of the plane.

Note although the Japanese masters (3rd dan) make this look simple it is actually quite easy to ruin a good tool if you do not know what you are doing. You should practice on an old #4 first.

OP - ?!!#???

 

[Eric The Viking]

@Beyonce: It's really important to remember that Japanese planes are used the other way round from Western ones. Here's a quick guide:

1. Stand facing your bench and your work, with the plane in front of you. Pick up the plane and hold it out in front of you, at arm's length.

2. Turn around so you are facing away from the bench. Crouch, then jump up and backwards so you land sitting on the workpiece. Shouting "Bansai!" at this point is both traditional and stress-relieving.

3. Push the plane between your legs, under your bottom, being careful to keep the sharp bit facing downwards. You may find it easier to kneel on the bench at this point (or do everything on the floor, as is traditional). Do not shout anything at all at this point (it's traditional), as it is believed to raise the grain of the wood.

4. Using your special Japanese-to-Western Adaptation Mirror (JWAM), look over your shoulder at the work piece and take a single, straight-but-curly shaving. If you don't have a JWAM yet, these are readily available from VeryExpensiveTools.de. There is also a Canadian model from Incapacitas, which you can probably order from a UK dealer.

5. Jump off the bench again (no shout is necessary), and measure the shaving with your digital micrometer. Mitutoyo ones are believed to work best in this context (and it keeps everything helpfully Japanese). The thickness doesn't matter, but the shaving must be at least nine inches long when stretched out. Micrometers are roughly six inches long (mostly), so you can easily use yours to estimate this.

6. Now perform the Japanese Break-for-Tea ceremony...

 

[Blockplane]

" planes....so last century.....I got this really good sanding disc adaptor for my angle grinder on fleabay and with very little practice I am finishing my palletwood furniture to +/- 5mm, which I am sure you will agree is stunningly accurate"

(adds a second pinch of salt, and runs)

 

[nabs]

beyonce - thanks for that Eric - I had read that they could only be used vertically, but I was probably confused!?!

OP - in the end I got another plane from Ebay that was slightly older than Dad's. Apparently production quality was better before WWII and indeed this one seems quite a lot flatter. The prices are crazy at the moment though (the so called "Peter Setler effect") and I had to pay £24 (delivered).

Still it does seem to be a very well made bit of kit so I am quite pleased. I will keep my Dad's old one for sentimental reasons.

Following a well trodden path, I am going to make myself a bench as a starter project. Very exciting! There are some excellent video tutorials and I was thinking of following one of them.

franz - MASS. The critical thing in any bench design is MASS. Do not even think about making a bench with a top that is less than 4'' thick and composed of solid lumber like maple.
(discussion continues for 9 years - nicholson, robou, aprons etc)

OP - hello again! sorry for the delay I have spent the last 6 months reading about bench design. I have decided to make a so-called English-style bench as it seems like a relatively straight forward design and I can use cheap/easily avialble wood.

I have got some construction grade pine from the local B&Q (aka Home Depot for our American friends!) and I have also bougth a few essential tools: a hardpoint saw, a combination square, a set of 18 Aldi chisels (note this set is now only availble for £16.50, more than double the price than when Salter first mentioned them <rollseyes>) etc.

Step 1 - preparing the timber!

Jez - TEAR OUT. Although this is just a work bench and should be used for WORKING you want it look as good as possible, so this is a great opportunity to learn about the 'cap iron' trick. take a look on the internet for more info!

nabs - interesting historical footnote: many people think the cap-iron is a relatively recent discovery, but actually it was discovered by David Weeblewobble of Pennsylvania who was working at some time in the second half of the C17th. Unfortunately, It is not possible to be sure of the exact date, but we know from a contemporary patent (GB9911238888832) that it must have been before 1682 ...(continues for several pages)

Karl Marx - hang-on a minute, no-one has thought to ask where the OP is located. As is well known, the effect of tear-out varies according to latitude.

OP - I am in Dunstable.

Karl Marx - in that case you are unlikely to have any particular problems. The janker hardness of Dunstable is 9, but the further north you go the higher the proportion of Silicon. If you go far enough north you will eventually go right round and end up in the Souther hemisphere - for those of us living in these areas things are almost 90% silicon and special anti-tear out measures are needed.

Having said that it is worth learning about the various options just in case you ever make anything out of teak (e.g a picnic table). There are several strategies - higher effective pitch, close-set chipbreaker/cap-iron, tantric meditation etc. The cap iron is probably the trickest to master but is the most versatile and will work in pretty much every circumstance, even at 90% silicon.

OP - many thanks for all the advice so far. I really appreciate it! I am making good progress on the legs and have all the timber cut and '4 square'. I am finding it very hard work though and wonder if I am doing it right? I am following the 'Scholtz protocol' for preparing the legs (aka 'fat, medium, thin') and according to Chris I should be getting shavings of between 3 to 4 thou , but mine seem a bit thinner than that. Any thoughts?

Kylie - do NOT use a traditional micrometer - these can compress the fibres giving a false reading.. (continues for 94 pages).

[Ed - that's quite enough of this nonsense]

 

[novocaine]

Yarlop- @ Karlmark, I think you'll find the janker for dunstable is 9.1. honestly though it really isn't needed, none of this is, it's been done like this for hundreds of years, why should we change it now, if it was good enough for us than it's good enough for us now. you shouldn't be using the thin thick thin methods, thats just some modern rubbish spouted by know it alls, honestly you only need to look at how benches were made back then to see that close enough is good enough, take your measurements using a story stick and stop looking for this mm perfect work (I prefer imperial over metric to be honest, it's a far more useful way of measuring and everybody in the world understands it, so 50 thousands of a inch). it'll never work in cheap wood anyway, you need to use blar blar blar blar.

pish posh@yarlop - oh here we go again, it's attitudes like yours that bring this whole place down, always trolling but never really providing an evidence of what you say. Your opinion is not fact. @OP you really need to look at the video on youtube by the wood whisper, he'll tell you everything you need to know, I suggest you start at the beginning and work through his stuff, he really is excellent. (sorry for the derailment, back on track now)