Complete Newbie Looking for Kit Advice Please

[orchard]

Hello everyone
As in the title really. I intend to eventually use parralell planed interesting hardwood to create bookcases/tables/toybox/worktops, and to start developing my skills by practicing on hidden storage projects, maybe workbench, etc. I also wish to implement traditional joints without recourse to screws or glue, wherever possible.
I have no direct experience with wood except yonks ago at school (--however I was trained in, but never really applied , fitting and turning), and therefore believe i'm going to be dependent heavily on machinery to accurately carry out my endeavours. With this in mind, I have no appropriate kit, excepting a drill, hammers, screwdrivers, and spirit level, lol...
I wish to purchase kit that won't need replacing in the main, and have given myself a budget of 1.5k to achieve this, however I would love some experienced advice from the members of this forum to help me prioritise please.
I've a rough list in notepad to give us a basis for criticism:

Router: £200 for hitachi
Router bits: £60 (cheapo selection+good dovetail)
Router Table: ? Woodrat 470
Bench: ?£100
Sander: £280 Festool ETS 150/3-EQ Plus Sander
Firm sander mat base:£40
Sander mats: 'Granat'(longer lasting), 'Crystal' or 'Rubin'(80-120grit) for raw;
Brilliant-2 (>180grit) for finishes;
Platin polishing/wet finishes
Bandsaw: £400
Plane: Lie-Nielsen £100-150
Chisel(s):
Goggles: £10
Mask: £20
Dust extractor: £
Ear Defenders:

I'd love some advice please, thanks in advance
Nick

 

[Phil Pascoe]

As a beginner you can forget half the above list until you actually need them. Get yourself a decent plane (Stanley or Record) some decent marking tools, a mallet and chisels - most of this can be picked up at car boots or on E bay, and think about building your bench. Save spending an arm and a leg until you're a bit further down the road, otherwise you'll buy expensive stuff that you'll regret - not that there's anything wrong with your list, but you'll change your mind as mission creep set in.
Phil.

 

[fluffflinger]

I agree with Phil the list you have is based on your opinions of what you think you might need. Much better to start as suggested with a few basic hand tools and build yourself a reasonable bench. From that project alone, which can be completed to a good standard with simple hand tools (that you will always need), you can evaluate what bits of mechanical wizardry might be useful.

Or if you like base your wish list on what would be needed to build say the first four projects you have in mind.

One thing all on here will agree with is that you should take time to consider your options for every purchase do your research and then buy the best you can afford hopefully one time only for each bit of kit.

This forum is a mine of useful information regarding machinery but the time to buy is when you really need something not just really want to own one.

Hand tools (and I am as power tool crazy as you like) are still an absolutely essential part of woodworking and making joints with hand saws and chisels will teach much about the joints and how they are formed as well as learning about the various timbers you are working and their nuances.

However if I was to pick two bits of kit that would feature early on my must have list it would be a good bandsaw and two routers one hand held and one in a sturdy table. I know that's three. Everybody will have different opinions as we all focus on different projects.

Good luck and don't be afraid to ask as you proceed, all here started somewhere and we only want to help.

 

[orchard]

Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated
--and I thought this was the bare-bones list (haha)...checking out hand tool bargains on fleabay currently!

 

[morfa]

Apart from the obvious, only buy tools when you need them (which is easier said than done, I always seem to buy something, thinking I need it, only to find out half way through a job, that I actually needed something else!) here's a few very useful links:

Paul Sellers has a bunch of great posts about buying old second hand tools and about building a workbench:

http://paulsellers.com/series/buying-good-tools-cheap/

and

http://paulsellers.com/series/building-a-workbench/

If you want generally good hand tool stuff, then Roy Underhill's show, The Woodwrights Shop is excellent:

http://video.unctv.org/program/woodwrights-shop/

Also this place has a good 'basic' tool list:

http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/ge ... tool-list/

There are couple of good sites done by folks on this place:

http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk
http://owdman.co.uk/
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ - lots of great reviews, which have some excellent how tos

My (very) limited knowledge, would say, pick a nice easy, first project, figure out the tools you need and then buy them, do the project and see how you get on.

 

[orchard]

There's some fantastic reading there thanks, stuff that was well off my radar ! )

 

[OldSchoolTools]

Hi There,

i've been quiet for a while now but do keep tracks on the UKW site its interesting enough just to read the comments,
i'm not trying to sell you any tools, but belive you should probably go down the route of purchasing some good Stanley or Record tools, plenty about, and if you do be sure to buy the best possible as belive me and by my own past mistakes it is a users market at the moment, I get offered tools daily and to be honest pass by many a offer due to the fact they are in poor condition,
plenty of good brass backed and steel backed tenon saws around and in some cases the feel of these are better than the marked leaders now days, ( that comment may cause a topic on its own )

I have bought off ebb myself sometimes worth while and other times a bad move especially when people just want as much as possible without describing correctly, try searching on ebb closest or distance nearest it may be worth viewing first?

good luck and have fun to everyone. :ho2

 

[SurreyHills]

I think that depending upon the amount of wood you are going to be using and what state it is you may want to consider revising your list. If you are using already dimensioned timber that just needs minor planing then your list is OK, but if it requires dimensioning then I would add a tablesaw to the list as well as a Planer/Thicknesser.

 

[Dibs-h]

Hello everyone
As in the title really. I intend to eventually use parralell planed interesting hardwood to create bookcases/tables/toybox/worktops, and to start developing my skills by practicing on hidden storage projects, maybe workbench, etc. I also wish to implement traditional joints without recourse to screws or glue, wherever possible.
I have no direct experience with wood except yonks ago at school (--however I was trained in, but never really applied , fitting and turning), and therefore believe i'm going to be dependent heavily on machinery to accurately carry out my endeavours. With this in mind, I have no appropriate kit, excepting a drill, hammers, screwdrivers, and spirit level, lol...
I wish to purchase kit that won't need replacing in the main, and have given myself a budget of 1.5k to achieve this, however I would love some experienced advice from the members of this forum to help me prioritise please.
I've a rough list in notepad to give us a basis for criticism:

Router: £200 for hitachi
Router bits: £60 (cheapo selection+good dovetail)
Router Table: ? Woodrat 470
Bench: ?£100
Sander: £280 Festool ETS 150/3-EQ Plus Sander
Firm sander mat base:£40
Sander mats: 'Granat'(longer lasting), 'Crystal' or 'Rubin'(80-120grit) for raw;
Brilliant-2 (>180grit) for finishes;
Platin polishing/wet finishes
Bandsaw: £400
Plane: Lie-Nielsen £100-150
Chisel(s):
Goggles: £10
Mask: £20
Dust extractor: £
Ear Defenders:

I'd love some advice please, thanks in advance
Nick

To be honest - considering you don't have much, I'd say get your self a good used pair of Stanley\Record planes from Ebay - I Nbr 5 and perhaps a Nbr 7.

Chisel - I've just bought some Narex chisels and they are well rated and very value for money. A decent set of hard-point saws along with a tenon saw, would stand you in good stead.

Sanding - best thing you could do is buy an Abranet block & some mixed sheets.

As for the Festool\Hitachi\Lie Nielson - unless you're minted and don't mind just looking at them - I'd leave them be.

Some basic hand tools and an actual idea of what you want to make - is going to take you further & quicker!

As for traditional joints that don't use glue & screws - I think you might be in for a shock as to how many actually do.

My 2p worth.

Dibs

 

[Steve Maskery]

When I started to build a tool kit (when I first started earning) my dad's advice was to buy one tool a week. It didn't matter whether it was a bradawl or a Holtey (well I don't think dad had heard of Holtey, but you get my drift), just buy one a week. In those days it was easy, as there were proper tool shops, several, in fact, in my local area. That's not the case now, I realise.
But the principle still applies.
Buy what you need, as you need it. Don't forget that there is no point in buying chisels or planes if you don't have the means to sharpen them. Search for scary sharp and spend some money on lapping sheets from Matthew at Workshop Heaven.
That should get you started.
S

 

[orchard]

Thanks again guys
Getting a bit more confused here, as I had intended to use machines to aid my lack of skill and speed, developing into the artisanal use of tools as my confidence grows--and my budget is getting shot to pieces, so may need to scale down....

OldSchoolTools: I've been lookin on fleabay for the basic hand tools that I currently think are basic and essential:
1. Bevel edged chisels should be sorted okay; mallet, not so much luck
2. Planes: Stanley 4 and 4.5 are easily sourced at good prices, but Fore's and Jointers less so.
--as Steve Maskery's pointed out, i'll need to either invest in a sharpening mechanism, or use my Japanese ceramic stones and diamond steels to keep an edge.
3. Combination square, try square,marking gauge,sliding bevel gauge ---effectively done
4. Saws ---struggling to source --- and, as I anticipate a heavy bandsaw to take most of the grunt here, do I, for example, get a good dovetail saw, and maybe a new basic (eg Stanley or Silverline) Tenon and Carcass? Also, are most of the blades universal, so I can swap-out an old blade from, say, an old 'Tyzack Sons & Turner 10" brass backed tenon saw', or would that even be desirable?

Thanks too for the advice to take it slowly, but I don't want to be in the position where wood arrives, I find myself with a few hours to crack on and i'm like 'doh, I need a rule'(lol), either...isn't it a bit of a compromise ? For instance, if I was asked a similar question by a apprentice chef as to which base-level tools he'd deffo require irrespective of speciality, I know he would need a paring knife, turner, peeler, etc. Also, continuing analogously, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that an artisan who's specialising in charcuterie, with little or no knife skills, to carefully use an accurate industrial grade slicer...

 

[Steve Blackdog]

Hi Orchard

Whatever you do, put your health and safety / personal protection stuff at the top of your list. Dust gets everywhere and can leave you permanently damaged as can noise. I'd immediately get at least some ear plugs, goggles and dust mask if you are using power tools - indeed, sanding by hand also produces nasty fine dust. You might want to consider something like a Trend Airstream Pro or one of the other makes. I would budget £150 for PPE equipment and another £150 for a dust extractor - the Record DX ones are good (my DX4000 also heats my shed!)

May I suggest (as you have a bench on your list and a router table), you should make yourself one of each. A workbench project (google Christopher Schwarz Workbenches) would let you learn on a useful job. You'll not buy a very sturdy workbench for £100 (IMHO), but for a bit more, you can build one that will last for years.

If buying on EBay, beware of ex-contractor / trade power tools. I bought a Dewalt DW625E Router for £88, which by the time I had bought a new armature cost me more than I could have spent of a new one. The guy selling it said "it was my late father in law's and I can't vouch for it, but it has been in his shed and seems to work ok" he didn't mention that his FIL put it in the shed after he'd used it on a construction site for ten years and knackered it!!!

Enjoy this addictive and wonderful pastime.

All the best
Steve

If you buy a router, you can make a useful router table quite easily and cost effectlvely.

 

[orchard]

Thanks Steve
Thanks for the ppe advice, I think my budget's gonna be compromised, but no skimping on this element. I'm never going to be intensively using the kit so was thinking of maybe forgoing vac-extract, however Axminster are selling recon.,and Festool are doing a bit of an offer at the moment...
Bench was going to be first, thanks for the tip, and yea, Woodrat was dropping off my list(I was thinking spend a bit more than a dedicated table, and future use when I'm more skilled with a router), so maybe I should shift back to a lighter handheld model, but deffo making my own, or an adaptation/extension of the workbench.
Btw, that 100 was for a fleabay one that is sturdy with vice.
That's another thing, vice advice anyone please? Will cheapo one's fall apart? Thought it was odd seeing one only guaranteed for a year...
Sorry to hear about that ebay purchase, yep, as someone who calls a spade a spade, I tend to assume face value, and it occured to me that I'm sure there must be a few sharks offloading spent kit on there