woodbloke
Established Member
At the end of the day, does the position of the stamp really matter? I'd rather be using the iron in the 'shop rather than the bloke doing the stamping :lol: - Rob
Clifton: why the lack of ductile iron?
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Paul Chapman
Established Member
I have about 9 Clifton blades. I quite like the fact that the stamp isn't identically positioned on all of them - gives them a bit of individuality 8) 8) Seriously, they all perform superbly - isn't that what matters :wink:
Cheers :wink:
Paul
Cheers :wink:
Paul
Nick Gibbs
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I visited Clico's workshop in Sheffield the other day, and discussed the manufacture of their Clifton planes and some of the topics raised in this thread. They explained some of the reasons for their choice of iron for various parts, as outlined by Matthew Platt of Workshop Heaven earlier in this thread. And they sent me away with a No.6 to test! Lucky me.
Watch out for the next issue of British Woodworking (out at the end of September) for some more detailed answers to some of the points in this topic. We also hope to put similar questions to Tom Lie-Nielsen, Rob Lee, Karl Holtey and any other plane manufacturer to answer our call. We'd like to speak to metallurgists about the subject as well.
Cheers
Nick
Watch out for the next issue of British Woodworking (out at the end of September) for some more detailed answers to some of the points in this topic. We also hope to put similar questions to Tom Lie-Nielsen, Rob Lee, Karl Holtey and any other plane manufacturer to answer our call. We'd like to speak to metallurgists about the subject as well.
Cheers
Nick
Paul Chapman
Established Member
Nick Gibbs":2y9cevwv said:
That will be interesting, Nick. There are always plenty of opinions about these things, but seldom any facts..... :wink:
Cheers :wink:
Paul
woodbloke
Established Member
What about the 'Y' lever material? - Rob
matthewwh
Established Member
Hi Rob,
Paul mentioned to me the problems you had experienced trying to retro-fit a Clifton Y lever to soup-up a Record (yours is a real peach by the way!)
The current Y levers are designed to work with Cliffie's and as far as I am aware they do the job they were designed for quite adequately. Paul has explained that a longer Y lever would have made your adaption for the Clifton blade easier, and suggested that Clico might offer a kit of parts, including the longer cap iron screw, lever cap screw and Y lever, to assist with fitting their thicker irons and chipbreakers to planes that would originally have had the thin ones.
I think this is a great idea and I'm sure the guys up at Clico will be keen too. Once they have had chance to get back to normal after the floods I will see if we can get something arranged and start stocking them.
Paul mentioned to me the problems you had experienced trying to retro-fit a Clifton Y lever to soup-up a Record (yours is a real peach by the way!)
The current Y levers are designed to work with Cliffie's and as far as I am aware they do the job they were designed for quite adequately. Paul has explained that a longer Y lever would have made your adaption for the Clifton blade easier, and suggested that Clico might offer a kit of parts, including the longer cap iron screw, lever cap screw and Y lever, to assist with fitting their thicker irons and chipbreakers to planes that would originally have had the thin ones.
I think this is a great idea and I'm sure the guys up at Clico will be keen too. Once they have had chance to get back to normal after the floods I will see if we can get something arranged and start stocking them.
Paul Chapman
Established Member
matthewwh":aw3eama5 said:
Hi Matthew,
I'll post some pictures later showing a Clifton and a couple of Records fitted with Clifton blades and cap irons and Y levers which Rob kindly modified for me, which will explain it all more clearly.
Cheers :wink:
Paul
Paul Chapman
Established Member
Hi Matthew,
Here are some photos, as promised. The problem when fitting thick blades to Records and Stanleys is that the Y lever is too short to engage with the slot in the cap iron. When Rob modified his Record #04 he silver soldered a piece of steel to the end of the Y lever to lengthen it. He did the same to the Y lever on my old Record #05 Stay Set which dates from the 1960s.
On my Record #04, which I bought in 1970, I had fitted a Clifton blade and cap iron and a Clifton Y lever which Mike Hudson had kindly sent me. While the Clifton Y levers work OK in Clifton planes, they are still a bit short when fitted to Records and Stanleys (which since the 1970s come fitted with two-part Y levers which are hard to lengthen). Rob tried to silver solder a piece onto the Clifton Y lever but it melted :shock: Not to be deterred, he then drilled the end of the Y lever and piece of steel and glued it on with industrial super glue and a piece of spring steel rod running through the holes he had drilled. It worked very successfully
Here's a picture of two Clifton Y levers lengthened in this way. I've also included a modern two-piece Y lever of the type Record fit these days
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Here's a close-up of my Record #04 with the lengthened Y lever and Clifton blade and cap iron fitted. You will see that the Y lever now engages fully with the slot (sorry it's a bit fuzzy )
[/url]
The plane now works really well. The 3.1mm Clifton blades and cap irons make a significant improvement in performance. Not as good as my Clifton planes, with their additional weight, greater precision and Bedrock frogs, but significantly better than they worked before.
Cheers :wink:
Paul
Here are some photos, as promised. The problem when fitting thick blades to Records and Stanleys is that the Y lever is too short to engage with the slot in the cap iron. When Rob modified his Record #04 he silver soldered a piece of steel to the end of the Y lever to lengthen it. He did the same to the Y lever on my old Record #05 Stay Set which dates from the 1960s.
On my Record #04, which I bought in 1970, I had fitted a Clifton blade and cap iron and a Clifton Y lever which Mike Hudson had kindly sent me. While the Clifton Y levers work OK in Clifton planes, they are still a bit short when fitted to Records and Stanleys (which since the 1970s come fitted with two-part Y levers which are hard to lengthen). Rob tried to silver solder a piece onto the Clifton Y lever but it melted :shock: Not to be deterred, he then drilled the end of the Y lever and piece of steel and glued it on with industrial super glue and a piece of spring steel rod running through the holes he had drilled. It worked very successfully
Here's a picture of two Clifton Y levers lengthened in this way. I've also included a modern two-piece Y lever of the type Record fit these days
Here's a close-up of my Record #04 with the lengthened Y lever and Clifton blade and cap iron fitted. You will see that the Y lever now engages fully with the slot (sorry it's a bit fuzzy
)The plane now works really well. The 3.1mm Clifton blades and cap irons make a significant improvement in performance. Not as good as my Clifton planes, with their additional weight, greater precision and Bedrock frogs, but significantly better than they worked before.
Cheers :wink:
Paul
I know modifying Y levers works, but adapting the cap iron to engage a standard Y lever is best, as it does not reduce the sensitivity of the screw adjustment. Personally I recon the DIY is much easier too.
Paul Chapman
Established Member
That's a fair point, Ivan. But sometimes I want to switch blades and cap irons between planes and it's far simpler in that situation to have a longer Y lever.
Cheers :wink:
Paul
Cheers :wink:
Paul
Javier
Established Member
Chris Schwartz of Popular Woodworking and Woodworking Magazine did a review of a few
Clifton Planes.
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cSchwarz/z_art/cliftonP/clifton1.asp
Clifton Planes.
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cSchwarz/z_art/cliftonP/clifton1.asp
Vann
Established Member
Hi Paul. I have a new Clifton iron and cap iron en-route to me and I've been reading as many old posts as I can find regarding potential problems with fitting the irons to my Record 04.
I realise this post is now very old. I cannot get the photos (I assume the links have been changed or deleted) and I hope you might post them again for me.
I had hoped to lengthen and fit a spare fabricated (two-piece) Y lever to my Record. I assume they are made of sheet mild steel. If so, I should be able to braze a lump of brazing rod onto the end, or gas weld a piece of mild steel (which sounds easier than risking the original cast yoke, to me). Did you try brazing or welding a two piece yoke? i.e. What makes them harder to lengthen?
Looking forward learning more from your experiences.
Vann.
Paul Chapman":15xmudqc said:
I realise this post is now very old. I cannot get the photos (I assume the links have been changed or deleted) and I hope you might post them again for me.
Paul Chapman":15xmudqc said:
I had hoped to lengthen and fit a spare fabricated (two-piece) Y lever to my Record. I assume they are made of sheet mild steel. If so, I should be able to braze a lump of brazing rod onto the end, or gas weld a piece of mild steel (which sounds easier than risking the original cast yoke, to me). Did you try brazing or welding a two piece yoke? i.e. What makes them harder to lengthen?
Looking forward learning more from your experiences.
Vann.
Paul Chapman
Established Member
Hi Vann,
When I fitted Clifton blades and cap irons to my Records, I found that the Y levers were not long enough to engage properly with the cap iron. I had a word with Mike Hudson of Clifton who sent me some Clifton Y levers. These were longer but not much. They were also made of quite soft metal so the end of the Y levers became a bit mangled. I made do with them but they were not entirely satisfactory.
Rob (Woodbloke) was renovating a Record #04 and wanted to fit a thicker, Clifton blade and he came up against the same problem. His Record was quite an old one with a one-piece Y lever and he was able to silver solder a piece of metal to the end of it. This worked well and he kindly offered to lengthen mine. Here's him soldering a piece to the Y lever of my Record #05 SS
This is the finished result, after cleaning up with a file
This has been very successful and I have been regularly using the plane with the extended Y lever for about 18 months.
He tried the same with my Record #04 fitted with a Clifton Y lever but the silver solder didn't take on it. Not to be out-done, he drilled the Y lever and the piece of metal and glued it together with some steel wire and industrial super glue
Here's the plane fitted with the extended Y lever and the Clifton blade and cap iron
That plane has also been in regular use with the modified Y lever for about 18 months with no problems.
The other thing I had to do was file out the mouths of the planes a little. I filed the front edge of the mouth (some people say file the rear of the mouth but I always do the front). Just take it slowly and check frequently and you shouldn't have any problems. File a slight slope on the mouth so that the shavings tend to curl away from you as they work their way through the plane.
I've not tried to modify the newer, two-part Record Y levers, so can't help you with that.
Fitting the Clifton blades and cap irons has made a significant improvement to the planes and was well worth doing.
Hope this helps.
Cheers :wink:
Paul
When I fitted Clifton blades and cap irons to my Records, I found that the Y levers were not long enough to engage properly with the cap iron. I had a word with Mike Hudson of Clifton who sent me some Clifton Y levers. These were longer but not much. They were also made of quite soft metal so the end of the Y levers became a bit mangled. I made do with them but they were not entirely satisfactory.
Rob (Woodbloke) was renovating a Record #04 and wanted to fit a thicker, Clifton blade and he came up against the same problem. His Record was quite an old one with a one-piece Y lever and he was able to silver solder a piece of metal to the end of it. This worked well and he kindly offered to lengthen mine. Here's him soldering a piece to the Y lever of my Record #05 SS
This is the finished result, after cleaning up with a file
This has been very successful and I have been regularly using the plane with the extended Y lever for about 18 months.
He tried the same with my Record #04 fitted with a Clifton Y lever but the silver solder didn't take on it. Not to be out-done, he drilled the Y lever and the piece of metal and glued it together with some steel wire and industrial super glue
Here's the plane fitted with the extended Y lever and the Clifton blade and cap iron
That plane has also been in regular use with the modified Y lever for about 18 months with no problems.
The other thing I had to do was file out the mouths of the planes a little. I filed the front edge of the mouth (some people say file the rear of the mouth but I always do the front). Just take it slowly and check frequently and you shouldn't have any problems. File a slight slope on the mouth so that the shavings tend to curl away from you as they work their way through the plane.
I've not tried to modify the newer, two-part Record Y levers, so can't help you with that.
Fitting the Clifton blades and cap irons has made a significant improvement to the planes and was well worth doing.
Hope this helps.
Cheers :wink:
Paul
bugbear
Established Member
Vann":30rkly0l said:
On the yoke engagement front I suggest these two approaches:
http://www.jarviser.co.uk/jarviser/tools1.html
http://www.jarviser.co.uk/jarviser/backlash1.html
BugBear
Vann
Established Member
Many thanks Paul and BugBear for the photos and the tutorials. I prefer the extended yoke, to the modified cap iron approach, as I will also be fitting a new Clifton stay-set cap iron (which I'm not keen to tamper with in case I stuff it).
I may try the cap iron mod on an older cap iron, just to enable me to try the new blade in other planes in my col.. err, arsenal.
Now I've just got to patiently wait until 4 December when my neighbour gets back from the UK with my little packet from Clifton (via CHT).
Cheers (and thanks again for your help),
Vann
I may try the cap iron mod on an older cap iron, just to enable me to try the new blade in other planes in my col.. err, arsenal.
Now I've just got to patiently wait until 4 December when my neighbour gets back from the UK with my little packet from Clifton (via CHT).
Cheers (and thanks again for your help),
Vann
