Clifton bench planes - the origins.

[Hatherton_wood]

I don't think it Chinese competition in this case - probably just low sales. Their biggest problem now I would imagine is the innovation from Veritas - LN have stopped a few planes now unfortunately but no point producing what does not sell.

 

[D_W]

LN still sells a ton here in the states. I'd be willing to bet that now that they have a large road show that goes from venue to venue that they can affect what people buy just based on their suggestions. One of the stranger things that they suggest (aside from goofy spending on steep frogs) is using the LN 8 as a smoothing plane.

(full disclosure, at one point I had both an LN 7 and an LN 8. I didn't find much favor using either as a smoother when one has a smoother available. For the same reason, I don't much like using an infill panel plane that I put together for smoothing, even though it's been suggested on this side of the pond that a panel plane is a do-all suitable for such things).

At any rate, they're plenty healthy and probably just realized it does no good for them to try to keep the popular things stocked if they're doing short runs of things that aren't that popular.

 

[Hatherton_wood]

I think actually the ones that look as if they might go out of production are the ones to buy! If you can predict...

 

[ColeyS1]

I've got a Stanley 5 1/4. Back in the day I was trying to collect all the record and all the Stanleys. Must say it's a pretty little thing. Ideal for a kid learning the difference between smoother and jack

Coley

 

[David C]

I have occasionally had young ladies with tiny hands and wrists like matchsticks, on my courses.

The 5 1/4 makes an ideal starting plane.

David Charlesworth

 

[D_W]

I've got a Stanley 5 1/4. Back in the day I was trying to collect all the record and all the Stanleys. Must say it's a pretty little thing. Ideal for a kid learning the difference between smoother and jack

Coley

That's what probably drove the value and desire for the 5 1/4 for a while. 10 years ago, it wasn't uncommon for someone to say they were trying to set up type sets, and I'm sure there are people who are still doing that. I just haven't seen as much of it on the internet.

It's not uncommon around here to find estates with a lot of stanley planes. A coworker of mine had a grandfather who collected stanley planes, and he bought every single one he could find, even if it was work like it had been pulled on pavement or had broken parts or castings cut down.

He died with 1600 planes, and his relatives had a mess trying to sell his planes. At his estate auction, they had gotten to selling the oddballs for a quarter bid....and the stuff that was really bad never sold.

Point being, when you could put the common ones together here for a few dollars, a lot of retirees who weren't woodworkers were collecting planes, hammers, saws, oil cans (my father is a collector of these), whatever floated their boat. Before the internet, I'm sure there was more anticipation of what you might see or get at each sale or tool meet, but now it's at your fingertips and collecting all kinds of things is less interesting because you can't do the on-foot hunt like you used to.

(5 1/4 planes look to price like a 5 or 4 on ebay now. Fascination seems to have worn off on infills, too, which in the states was out of control for a while - $1000 for a common norris smoother in decent condition, and supernatural powers were attributed to them just because they became a fad).

If lie-nielsen has any issue (none of the above affects it), it's that there's too often more desire for their stuff than they have the capability to tool up for and meet.

 

[Hatherton_wood]

Its rather sad to see some of them go though.. the #9 especially and rather a surprise the #103 and #9-1/2 from mainstrean production - but after trying the adjusters on the later two I can see why - they do not work nearly so well at the steeper angle - the QS version works more smoothly and does not need all the pressure taken off the cap to adjust without shaving metal off the rotating knob.

 

[D_W]

I liked the 9, too. I had one for quite a while, but the longer I go, the less I shoot ends (sold it along with the other LNs more or less). The 9 does make a nice plane for long grain, though, too.

 

[Andy Kev.]

I have occasionally had young ladies with tiny hands and wrists like matchsticks, on my courses.

The 5 1/4 makes an ideal starting plane.

David Charlesworth

Given that the Gent's Saw is a recognised tool, I can see no reason why there shouldn't be a Lady's Plane. It has a nice civilised, sort of eighteenth century ring to it.

In fact, it could be a good business opportunity: get a few made, get a decent ad done (the planes swishing away on a honey coloured bench - being pushed by the sort of gal who you would normally expect to see in Country Life - with either Mozart or one of the Brandenburg Concertos tootling away in the Background) and you'd be rolling in it. :mrgreen:

 

[D_W]

The range of hand sizes that I've seen (making planes) is pretty large, and I haven't made that many planes. The key measurement for a plane handle is the width across the knuckles.

I have seen ladies measurements as small as 2.75 inches hand width just below the knuckles, to a friend of mine (an Englishman, even, living in the states) who had a span across the knuckles of 4.75 inches. I had to put a handle on his plane well over 5 inches tall in total to the top of the horn. It looked ridiculous, and ended up being almost an inch further back on the try plane to give handle access.

I've never had any plane smaller than a three, but don't have exceptionally large hands (3.5 inches across the knuckles). Some 4s are small enough even at that. it's not like a wooden plane where there's room to drape your fingers over the sides.

Can't say I've ever paid attention to the 5 1/4 just because the iron width is a turn off.

 

[Vann]

Can't say I've ever paid attention to the 5 1/4 just because the iron width is a turn off.

Funny how each person is different. I only have two Clifton planes (plenty of Clifton irons and cap-irons, but only two planes): a No.3 and a No.4½, and I prefer the No.3 mostly because of the blade width (the same width as Stanley's No.5¼). My hand is a little under 4" across the palm.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[D_W]

On the flip side of that, I've come to not like the 4 1/2 that much, either. too wide as a smoother.

The 4 probably sold in droves for various reasons, but one of those had to be due to the iron width being what a lot of folks wanted (the other may be that it was stocked as a local hardware store item whereas other sizes may not have been...who knows?).

You can imagine that my local friend with the 4.75" hands doesn't find many planes that he likes (and that's the truth - even the largest millers falls handles are three finger handles for him).