Clifton Bench Planes one piece cap iron - anyone tried it

[Martingchapman]

The Flinn-Garlick web site now states "The Cap Iron has a single piece design to offer rigid clamping" for the Clifton Bench Planes.
However several suppliers web sites still talk about the planes having a two piece Cap Iron.
Have F-G changed over to a single piece design (at last)?
If so are they are available and has anyone tried a plane with a single piece Cap Iron yet?

Martin.

 

[G S Haydon]

I think you can get them now, it'll work fine. You could fit an old Stanley one and it would work equally as well.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Thomas Flinn have now changes over to the one piece cap iron, I was involved with the bench testing and prototyping of the new ones last year.

We will change the product descriptions as stocks of the old style are sold off, we do have a description of the new one piece on our website if you need more information.

Cheers Peter

 

[Paul Chapman]

Thomas Flinn have now changed over to the one piece cap iron

That's very disappointing. While it doesn't affect me personally because I have the two-piece (or Stay Set) cap irons fitted to all my bevel-down bench planes, it's a pity that they have stopped making what, in my view, is the best cap iron available.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Thomas Flinn have now changes over to the one piece cap iron, I was involved with the bench testing and prototyping of the new ones last year.

Go on then ... is it an improvement ? I can see that it avoids machining in favour of laser cutting, but what's in it for us ? I've not used the new style, but worry that it is one less distinctive feature to make one pick a Clifton plane.

I understand if you can't comment

 

[Peter Sefton]

Thomas Flinn have now changed over to the one piece cap iron

That's very disappointing. While it doesn't affect me personally because I have the two-piece (or Stay Set) cap irons fitted to all my bevel-down bench planes, it's a pity that they have stopped making what, in my view, is the best cap iron available.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

I also liked the two piece, but we have had several discussions on here with people who didn't like it, I guess they have listened to the masses.

Cheers Peter

 

[Peter Sefton]

Thomas Flinn have now changes over to the one piece cap iron, I was involved with the bench testing and prototyping of the new ones last year.

Go on then ... is it an improvement ? I can see that it avoids machining in favour of laser cutting, but what's in it for us ? I've not used the new style, but worry that it is one less distinctive feature to make one pick a Clifton plane.

I understand if you can't comment

Is it an improvement? Good question, I think it depends on your view point.

I understand that the SS was made for a time in history when makers were paid by piece work, so giving the plane iron a quick sharpen without moving the chip breaker was a plus.

These days many of the customers of high end planes will not be professional makers so their needs are different and they also use honing guides so the main part of the two piece also needs to be removed.

Also the old style bent chip breakers have a bending effect on thin plane blades so the SS gave better stability to the blade, but again fashions have changed. Blades are now thick again and one piece chip breakers don't have the same bending effect on the blades as the old cheaper versions.

I have also had discussions on here about the three point rocking effect that was designed within the Clifton SS CB, but people would take the CB apart and refile it flat, I think the SS may have been mis understood.

Cheers Peter

 

[woodbrains]

Thomas Flinn have now changed over to the one piece cap iron

That's very disappointing. While it doesn't affect me personally because I have the two-piece (or Stay Set) cap irons fitted to all my bevel-down bench planes, it's a pity that they have stopped making what, in my view, is the best cap iron available.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

I also liked the two piece, but we have had several discussions on here with people who didn't like it, I guess they have listened to the masses.

Cheers Peter

Hello,

I like the 2 piece as well, so they weren't listening to me! Let's be honest, it was an economising stunt advertised as an 'improvement' As was not forging the irons anymore. The only thing that distinguished Clifton from the other premium brands were the forged iron and Stay Set cap iron. Whether it was a real or perceived benefit, it was a USP which they now have none. I'll bet most who want that sort of plane with now plump for Lie Neilsen. They ( Clifton)seem to be the most expensive of the premium brands and have a much smaller range, so the completist tool buyer will opt for the brand that will furnish a set.

Mike.

 

[D_W]

Thomas Flinn have now changed over to the one piece cap iron

That's very disappointing. While it doesn't affect me personally because I have the two-piece (or Stay Set) cap irons fitted to all my bevel-down bench planes, it's a pity that they have stopped making what, in my view, is the best cap iron available.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

I also liked the two piece, but we have had several discussions on here with people who didn't like it, I guess they have listened to the masses.

Cheers Peter

I say this in no snarky way at all, but it must be easier and cheaper to make a one piece cap iron than two.

Both types seem fine to me.

I think record's old slightly heavy stamped one-piece may be my favorite of all.

 

[PAC1]

I have a plane with the new one piece cap. My initial response was disappointment. But when I looked carefully at the new cap iron it does show some design development. This is not your stanley bent iron, nor a large lump of steel. What Clifton have done is created a lip on the front edge by grinding it into the steel. The new cap iron can therefore form a tight connection with the blade close to the edge in a way that is guaranteed to maximise the fit and minimise any fettling.
So yes it is a change but I am not of the view it is all negative and can see what Clifton were seeking to achieve.
I have not had it long enough to decide but so far it is growing on me.

 

[lurker]

we do have a description of the new one piece on our website if you need more information.

Cheers Peter

Can you link this cos I have looked but can't see

 

[Peter Sefton]

we do have a description of the new one piece on our website if you need more information.

Cheers Peter

Can you link this cos I have looked but can't see

That's a worry

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/collections/clifton

Cheers Peter

 

[Andy Kev.]

I treated myself to a Clifton 4 1/2 for Christmas and it works like a dream. I have no experience of two piece irons but I can't imagine what degree of improvement they could deliver over this one.

Incidentally it's clear that a lot of care has gone into the making of the plane as it is aesthetically beautiful and while I accept that that has nothing to do with performance, it is indicative of Clifton's approach to achieving quality.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I like the 2 piece as well, so they weren't listening to me! Let's be honest, it was an economising stunt advertised as an 'improvement' As was not forging the irons anymore.

I suspect this is neither purely an economy drive, or listening to customers. I suspect that with the closure of Clico and the passing of the Clifton brand to Thomas Flinn, they are not equipped to forge parts. Hence an engineered solution. I guess subcontracted casting and laser cutting, leaving a bit of grinding and painting to do in house, maybe ?

 

[Martingchapman]

we do have a description of the new one piece on our website if you need more information.

Cheers Peter

Can you link this cos I have looked but can't see

That's a worry

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/collections/clifton

Cheers Peter

Peter,
I followed the link and thought I could not find the description, however it was because the photo of the new one piece chip breaker looks just like a plane iron, so it was not obvious.
However, once I clicked on the photo of the new cap iron the description is there, thanks.
I also looked at the No 4 plane page and it still mentions a two piece cap iron. Have you just not got round to updating it yet?
If yes, are your stock all one piece cap irons now?

Martin.

 

[pedder]

If you use waterstones to sharpen, a stey set doesn't make sense at all. The reason I sold mine (and Clifton is to heavy.)

 

[Vann]

I like the 2 piece as well, so they weren't listening to me! Let's be honest, it was an economising stunt advertised as an 'improvement' As was not forging the irons anymore. The only thing that distinguished Clifton from the other premium brands were the forged iron and Stay Set cap iron. Whether it was a real or perceived benefit, it was a USP which they now have none...

I have to agree with Mike ("woodbrains"). If I wanted a thick single piece cap iron, I had a choice of Hock, Lie-Nielsen (discontinued), Veritas, Quangsheng and PBC. But I didn't, I wanted the 2-piece for my existing Record planes - so I bought Clifton. If I wanted a new cap-iron now, why would I chose Clifton - what's their point of difference? I'd probably pick the Veritas.

I agree however, that the two-piece is not required for stiffening the thicker irons such as those fitted to Clifton planes. I heard that they were considering retaining the two piece as an option (or separate purchase), is that still the case?

I also lament the passing of the forged cutting iron, and it's deep stamped logo - and the passing of skills that were required to make them.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[iNewbie]

I like the 2 piece as well, so they weren't listening to me! Let's be honest, it was an economising stunt advertised as an 'improvement' As was not forging the irons anymore. The only thing that distinguished Clifton from the other premium brands were the forged iron and Stay Set cap iron. Whether it was a real or perceived benefit, it was a USP which they now have none...

I have to agree with Mike ("woodbrains"). If I wanted a thick single piece cap iron, I had a choice of Hock, Lie-Nielsen (discontinued), Veritas, Quangsheng and PBC. But I didn't, I wanted the 2-piece for my existing Record planes - so I bought Clifton. If I wanted a new cap-iron now, why would I chose Clifton - what's their point of difference? I'd probably pick the Veritas.

I agree however, that the two-piece is not required for stiffening the thicker irons such as those fitted to Clifton planes. I heard that they were considering retaining the two piece as an option (or separate purchase), is that still the case?

I also lament the passing of the forged cutting iron, and it's deep stamped logo - and the passing of skills that were required to make them.

Cheers, Vann.

Its not listed on their website - I think its safe to say its gone...

https://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/ac ... LANES.html

 

[Martingchapman]

I treated myself to a Clifton 4 1/2 for Christmas and it works like a dream. I have no experience of two piece irons but I can't imagine what degree of improvement they could deliver over this one.

Incidentally it's clear that a lot of care has gone into the making of the plane as it is aesthetically beautiful and while I accept that that has nothing to do with performance, it is indicative of Clifton's approach to achieving quality.

Andy,
Thanks very much, a comment from someone who actually has a one piece cap iron plane is what I was hoping for.
Think I will go for one as soon as finances allow.

In case anyone is wondering why I prefer the one piece cap iron, its because I use a honing guide to sharpen the blade, so the two piece is no advantage (and is a bit more of a fiddle to replace accurately).

Martin.

 

[D_W]

and it's deep stamped logo - and the passing of skills that were required to make them.

Me, too. I especially liked the stamp. We get a lot of static about how the furniture doesn't know the difference and that the irons didn't hold up better (which is probably, true).

The same sentiment gives us Ikea furniture instead of joined goods, too. They pretty much sit and store just as well, and in some cases, they have the potential for excellent longevity.