Client insisting on cheap materials - what to do?

[Woody2Shoes]

+1 for Wisa Spruce ply - cheap'ish but good quality.

Is there scope for changing the design slightly e.g. to add softwood lippings/edges/braces to robustify the stuff a bit?

Good points above about risk.

Cheers, W2S

 

[dzj]

An exchange of emails in which I voice my concerns works well for me. It's not a contract,
but I can always refer to the correspondence if the client isn't 100% satisfied with the job.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I learned very quickly to accept work only on the condition I supplied all materials. I was always fair and passed on part of the discount I received.
Very few on my projects had problems but the only ones that did were where I allowed my customers to supply.

As others have said, It's difficult to walk away but sometimes it makes sense.

I advised a relative to do the exact opposite - he was being robbed by a decorator charging full whack for labour, then putting a huge mark up on very inferior paint. He could have had his house done with the best paint on the market for what he was paying for supermarket brands - this guy was a lifelong decorator, always busy, always expensive ... and I wouldn't have allowed him to decorate my dog's kennel.
It does much depend on the honesty of the people involved.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Anything made for trade shows has to be really strong, not made of scrap, if it's going to last and still look good.

If your client thinks saving a few quid on materials is more important than getting a good quality outcome, don't even bother with contracts, etc. They'll be trouble in future and they evidently don't trust your good advice!

Give them one last chance to let you source (open book accounting on materials if you really, really want the deal), otherwise walk away.

. . .

Last week I made some storage boxes (for a couple of my power tools) out of an offcut of 1/2" ply I've had hanging around for ages. It was bought for flooring (under lino), and although not B+Q it was from a builder's merchant locally and poor quality.

Lots and lots of voids and overlapping laminations, even causing slight bulges when you cut through one. It also sprang into curves once sawn up so there were even tensions in the ply (how do they achieve that???). I wouldn't have tried to use it if I had realised how dreadful it was.

I was experimenting with mitre-lock joints (first outing for an Axminster cutter). They should have been brilliant (the test cuts were amazing, to me at least), and ALL the problems were down to that rubbish ply. In the glue-up, I had squeeze-out coming from unglued edges of the laminations, inches away from where the glue was. It showed how extensive those voids were.

I have learned. Never again. For anything other than flooring, I'll only use decent stuff in future.

 

[Lons]

I learned very quickly to accept work only on the condition I supplied all materials. I was always fair and passed on part of the discount I received.
Very few on my projects had problems but the only ones that did were where I allowed my customers to supply.

As others have said, It's difficult to walk away but sometimes it makes sense.

I advised a relative to do the exact opposite - he was being robbed by a decorator charging full whack for labour, then putting a huge mark up on very inferior paint. He could have had his house done with the best paint on the market for what he was paying for supermarket brands - this guy was a lifelong decorator, always busy, always expensive ... and I wouldn't have allowed him to decorate my dog's kennel.
It does much depend on the honesty of the people involved.

That last line is the key Phil and why all my work came from reputation which I worked very hard at to build

 

[heimlaga]

I would have them sign a written disclaimer...... and then write down my doubts with date and signature in several places on hidden insides of the products. When things start to fall apart your text will become visible and nobody can blame you.

 

[No skills]

Another perspective if you will..

Agree a gaurentee period with the client for this product (6 months/12 months), add a LARGE chunk to you labour cost to cover any inconvenient repair work to said product over this period (after all you will have to stop what ever your doing and work on their project), make sure the client understands that any repairs will be billed for materials and labour at the standard rate and that once the 6/12 months is up that's it.

Fwiw

 

[No skills]

Forgot to add that as this is a display stand it's going to get beat to crap anyways (unless it's carefully crated up at the end of each show). Yes the birch ply is a way better material but it will get beat up just the same and could still end up with repair requests.

 

[No skills]

Or play the H&S card.

Cheap splintery plywood plus the general public? Not a good idea

I'll go away now..

 

[thetyreman]

I would definitely walk away from this, the client isn't always right, remember this is YOUR business and reputation on the line, and that's more important than any money.

 

[RogerM]

I would definitely walk away from this, the client isn't always right, remember this is YOUR business and reputation on the line, and that's more important than any money.

The end result is up toyour client to decide. Having given you the spec, how you do it is your decision. The trouble is that whilst the client is not always right there is rarely anything to be gained by proving him wrong.

 

[MattRoberts]

I don't understand the problem others are having with their suggestions of not doing the work. Get it in writing as many have suggested, and get the client to sign it. Then take their money and build it.

Why turn the work away?

 

[No skills]

Trying to protect a reputation that's hasn't been built yet?

 

[dynax]

Many years ago i worked for a company that made exhibition stands, we used to have a few stands that were used over and over again, the stands themselves were owned by the exhibitor, but we stored them, repaired them and set them up, once the initial job was paid for, we then arranged with them a maintanence and storage fee, as well as the extra for setting them up and breaking them down at the various exhibitions across the country, some of the stands were well over 10 years old, if you do the job, let them know if they don't already, that damage will happen during transportation and handling, and try and negotiate the maintenence for them, as they will need it,

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Trying to protect a reputation that's hasn't been built yet?

Does sound a bit daft, but I take pride in my work and if I let it slide once, I'll likely do it again and it will roll and roll and I'll never be able to establish a reputation.

May as well start as I mean to go on.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Many years ago i worked for a company that made exhibition stands, we used to have a few stands that were used over and over again, the stands themselves were owned by the exhibitor, but we stored them, repaired them and set them up, once the initial job was paid for, we then arranged with them a maintanence and storage fee, as well as the extra for setting them up and breaking them down at the various exhibitions across the country, some of the stands were well over 10 years old, if you do the job, let them know if they don't already, that damage will happen during transportation and handling, and try and negotiate the maintenence for them, as they will need it,

Thank you, thats something i confess I hadn't even considered.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Thank you very much for the input everyone.

I had a chat with the client in question today, with fresh resolve thanks to your replies. They have agreed to meet with me next week to discuss my concerns, so thats progress.

 

[marcros]

if possible, i would be armed with a price for "good" ply, and a sample of typical b and q stuff to show the voids. I imagine that the difference in price wont me much as a percentage of the overall item. B and Q, even at trade prices isnt cheap!

 

[Lons]

If you haven't already done so then it pays to be honest about your motives. Tell him straight that you're a perfectionist and trying to build a reputation and repeat business, that you don't want to risk unnecessary callbacks for the sake of both parties. Customers almost always are happy to buy into that.

In general, people don't want a cheap job just value for money and in reality the vast majority will opt for a mid quote and recommendations / good reviews

 

[Phil Pascoe]

And of course you can be honest with them - if they insist on cheap materials you will price for more hours - as it takes more work. What is gained on one hand is lost on the other, so they'd just as well have the better job.