Clico - End of an Era

[Andy Kev.]

Graham, everything you said above makes complete sense and it seems to me that with their respective approaches both Veritas and L-N have done a great service to woodworking. I just hope that comparable British firms come to the fore to take up well deserved places alongside them.

Thanks for that link to David Savage. I'll set aside some time to go throught it properly.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

Graham, everything you said above makes complete sense and it seems to me that with their respective approaches both Veritas and L-N have done a great service to woodworking. I just hope that comparable British firms come to the fore to take up well deserved places alongside them.

Thanks for that link to David Savage. I'll set aside some time to go throught it properly.

Another point of view: is it possible that LN & LV have targeted more the hobbyist end of things and Thomas Flinn (for example) has targeted more of those that make their living from tools?

 

[G S Haydon]

I'd say most nicer hand tools are aimed at mainly at hobby woodworkers Tony although professionals do enjoy them too. Most of the context shown presents the tools being used in home workshop situations.

I don't know if flinn have traction with the trades. I have found as a Joiner who started work in 1997 I needed a core of tools, most of which are likely to be nearer to contractor style. Chisels with plastic handles, hardpoint saws, Bailey #4, eclipse coping saw etc. I could of bought nicer stuff but it would of not helped. All the heavy work is done by machines, final fitting done by hand when required. It's unlikely that there are enough furniture makers to support the production of the nicer stuff.

Andy, David's stuff is a good read. I don't agree with all of it but that is not the point. He is experienced and that makes his thoughts worthy of study much more than an edge retention chart.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

I'd say most nicer hand tools are aimed at mainly at hobby woodworkers Tony although professionals do enjoy them too. Most of the context shown presents the tools being used in home workshop situations.

I don't know if flinn have traction with the trades. I have found as a Joiner who started work in 1997 I needed a core of tools, most of which are likely to be nearer to contractor style. Chisels with plastic handles, hardpoint saws, Bailey #4, eclipse coping saw etc. I could of bought nicer stuff but it would of not helped. All the heavy work is done by machines, final fitting done by hand when required. It's unlikely that there are enough furniture makers to support the production of the nicer stuff.

Andy, David's stuff is a good read. I don't agree with all of it but that is not the point. He is experienced and that makes his thoughts worthy of study much more than an edge retention chart.

I graduated from college in 1974, and was laying around home, not interested in working. My father was a field superintendent for a regional contractor and said you either move out, or get a job. I didn't move out, so he got me into the 4 year carpenter's apprentice program, served all 4 years, and worked the trades until 1989 when I left and started a manufacturing business (and that's where I am today).

Anyhow, the apprentice program had a very tight regiment for us: specific tools to purchase, as well as how we were to dress. For example, we could only wear white Carhartt carpenter's bibs (w/attached nail apron). Our tool kits included specific tools, such as a Stanley 42X sawset, Bailey #4 & #5 handplanes, 8pt. cross cut and 7pt. rip (both Disston D23 and no panel saw lengths), Stanley framing square (I showed up with a Sargent and damn near got run off, as the Sargent had rafter lengths engraved, and the Stanley gave you values to compute with).

After I left the trade, I began hobbyist woodworking and continue to this day. It was interesting entering the trades when there was still some quality to the tools, if you searched out older hardware stores, but within a decade or so, totes were plastic, and the Stanley #60 chisels were no more, etc. I am still waiting for the day when I can use my knowledge of laying out a compound hip rafter!

 

[G S Haydon]

1974, that makes you ancient right . Joking aside I never had to do the framing square thing but did do some work on getting true rafter lengths, forgot it as soon as I was shown. Although the tools had plastic handles they were still pretty good, Marples Splitproof etc.

Nice to know the background Tony, very interesting to here how controlled your purchases were.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

1974, that makes you ancient right . Joking aside I never had to do the framing square thing but did do some work on getting true rafter lengths, forgot it as soon as I was shown. Although the tools had plastic handles they were still pretty good, Marples Splitproof etc.

Nice to know the background Tony, very interesting to here how controlled your purchases were.

Just feel ancient for the first half hour after getting out of bed in the morning!

What has been interesting to me, is the contractor I mostly worked for, I've contracted numerous times for additions to my plant. Still a union shop, with the carpenters still having to serve an apprenticeship. I find the quality of them quite high, even though their tools differ greatly-hardpoint saws, that cannot be sharpened, etc. For new offices I had constructed two years ago, I supplied the workers with my Millers Falls miter box and Lion miter trimmer. Guys did not like the manual miter box, preferring to use their Dewalt powered saw. However, they did use the miter trimmer on nearly every cut. They also feel in love using my block plane for "tuning & fitting". They had planes, but in their training, they said there was little emphasis on using them. I guess, at least here in the states, most of the union work seems to be more commercial or industrial, with house building left to others.