City and guilds

[Pineapple]

I went on a kitchen fitting course years ago through a work scene didn’t learn much if anything and have looked at courses but it’s all stuff I know I just thought I could learn more but probably need some old bench joiner to shadow to get some new tips and tricks or just keep progressing at the rate I’m on for now

Being Registered Disabled with a chronic back problem & thereby unemployed for several years; the Jobcentre insisted that I should retrain.
I expressed an interest in Furniture & Cabinet Making.
They sent me to a college which specialised in retraining folk who are registered disabled. - I was put on a course to learn
"Carpentry & Joinery City & Guilds Level 2" - I was taught how (in theory) I could construct all of thhe 1st & 2nd fixings in the Building Trade.
I found all of the building regulations and construction methods quite fascinating - but entirely useless to me in the job market; because it was all much too heavy for my back problem...I wasted a 6 months residential course (costing the government around £7000+ benefits ) on being retrained for a job which I couldn't physically cope with ! When I entered the jobcentre they sent me to interview for several jobs making staircases, doors & windows...The employers were unimpressed by my C&G 2; - but gave me trial periods & lousy pay-rates.
I found the work boring & too heavy for my back. The employers were, for the most part, much more interested in profitability than health & safety. - I struggled with the work for a couple of years and eventually, after a lot of pain & frustration, I became a "White-Van-Courier" !

 

[Keith 66]

When i was at school in the 70's schools did tech drawing, woodwork & metalwork which taught kids the basics, many went on to do apprenticeships & C&G, I did this & went to tech college to do yacht & boatbuilding. I stayed in the boat trade for most of my career. Then i became a D&T technician in a school, I recently retired, Trouble is practical subjects are even less valued now than they were before & kids who are practically inclined are being sold very short.

 

[Jacob]

Being Registered Disabled with a chronic back problem & thereby unemployed for several years; the Jobcentre insisted that I should retrain.
I expressed an interest in Furniture & Cabinet Making.
They sent me to a college which specialised in retraining folk who are registered disabled. - I was put on a course to learn
"Carpentry & Joinery City & Guilds Level 2" - I was taught how (in theory) I could construct all of thhe 1st & 2nd fixings in the Building Trade.
I found all of the building regulations and construction methods quite fascinating - but entirely useless to me in the job market; because it was all much too heavy for my back problem...I wasted a 6 months residential course (costing the government around £7000+ benefits ) on being retrained for a job which I couldn't physically cope with ! When I entered the jobcentre they sent me to interview for several jobs making staircases, doors & windows...The employers were unimpressed by my C&G 2; - but gave me trial periods & lousy pay-rates.
I found the work boring & too heavy for my back. The employers were, for the most part, much more interested in profitability than health & safety. - I struggled with the work for a couple of years and eventually, after a lot of pain & frustration, I became a "White-Van-Courier" !

Sounds like a very similar course to mine, except not for the disabled. I couldn't get a job, except at derisory rates of pay (actually with hindsight probably quite reasonable!) so went self employed and just by chance hit on period restoration work, mainly sash windows and panelled doors, plus lots of odds and ends.

 

[JobandKnock]

The employers were unimpressed by my C&G 2; - but gave me trial periods & lousy pay-rates.
I found the work boring & too heavy for my back. The employers were, for the most part, much more interested in profitability than health & safety.

Welcome to the construction industry! Even in a cabinetmaking shop you need to be able to handle weights - that nice walnut lipping often starts as a big plank which need to be ripped down then passed across/through the over and under s number of times. Then there's the veneered MDF sheet it may be going onto at 50 to 60kg... Joinery, especially heavy first fix like you get on listed building refurbs where we have double floors, can be dirty heavy work. Boring is relative, but I certainly find site work more interesting than bench work, having done both

Sorry, but I, too, am unimpressed by a level 2, although a C&G is better than an NVQ level 2, many of which seem to be "hookey" (at least based on the lack of knowledge and ability of some the holders - but there are obvious exceptions). To my mind a C&G Level 3 is a better indication of training, if not ability.

As to the money - if your productivity isn't high (and an inexperienced employee won't normally be all that productive) and you don't have the tool kit, why would an employer be paying a high rate? Not much of an incentive for the experienced lads who are doing more work if you are all on the same rate (which is one of the shortfalls of agency staff). I'm interested to know the time period we are talking about here and the rate you were paid