Chucking Recesses

[petercharlesfagg]

Friends,
There is much discussion about finishing of bowls and platters and surface decorations, especially on the bases.

I for one have never removed the chucking recess in any of my many hundreds of bowls, dishes or platters. Nor have I received any complaints from my commissioners or customers.

I realise that a spigot is usually removed but have never used them!

I do understand from conversations with several turners for whom competitions are the norm that they would never consider leaving the mounting section.

What is your feeling about leaving a recess?

Are they acceptable if they are decorated?

Regards, Peter.

 

[Bodrighy]

I think spigots can either be removed or reshaped to become a foot as wished, recesses also can be left bare or decorated in some way. I have even seen them filled in. Personally I think that there is an element of snobbery involved in the idea of it being unacceptable to have any sign of the mounting. If it is obvious and ugly do something about it but generally I think it is easy enough to make it part of the feature. I don't like seeing chuck marks, screw holes etc in the bottom but apart from that no problem with either.

pete

 

[stevebuk]

i think pete has it bang on, there is snobbery involved and some folks are the same over the makes of tools you use and own also, but they only win if you let it bother you, sod em...

 

[cornucopia]

imo- it’s nothing to do with snobbery it’s all to do with your own pride and the care taken to do justice to the wood etc- you will never obtain the same fine finish on a chuck recess as you will on the rest of the piece due to not being able to sand & finish it to the extent of the rest of the piece and you also may or may not get some marks from the jaws. you should finish every piece of your work to the very best of your ability especially if you are selling it as you are representing not only yourself but the woodturning community.
now don’t get me wrong make what pleases you and do it how you want to- but unfortunately if our hobby is ever going to lift itself out of the cheap craft stereotype it’s got..... the level of detail in allot of "craft fair work" must change.... as some (not all) seem to have this "it’ll do" attitude

 

[Blister]

I have no problem with the chuck spigot / recess

Personally I think a shallow one adds to the design when finished well

Also , when people / customers say " How did you make it " its easier to explain how its done

Yes you do get turners that remove any evidence , but why ? , other turners know whats been done ,, so its no secret is it :wink:

 

[tekno.mage]

Someone in the woodturning club I attend once told me that its only other woodturners that will turn a piece over and look at the bottom to see how it's been finished - and I tend to agree with that.

Our club puts on turning demos at local vintage rallies and often sells members work at these events to help raise club funds. I've never seen a buyer of any of these pieces ever turn one over and look at the bottom! Buyers seem to be first attracted to the form, then the type of wood, and then they pick the item up and run their fingers over the lovely smooth wood - but turn it over and look underneath, never. The next stage is either to put it back down, or to keep hold of it and hand over some money (and then ask for bag!)

My personal feeling is that removal of the chucking recess or spigot depends on the piece.

Obviously if you are making a round-bottomed bowl, you have to remove the chucking point! I've seen plenty of work with decorated chucking recesses which look very nice and are well finished (even inside the recess, probably finally finished by hand off the lathe). I've also seen work where the size of the chucking recess seems to have affected the form of the piece - and that is not so good.

My own personal preference is to use a spigot to hold the work, which gives the opportunity to make a foot on the piece if I want one or to remove the spigot if I don't.

It also probably depends on where the work is destined for. I'd expect a gallery piece to either have no chucking points visible, or else a highly finished & decorated recess containing the turner's mark or signature. A piece intended for day-to-day use in my own kitchen may well have a not-so-well-finished chucking recess left on the base!

tekno.mage

 

[Jonzjob]

I have never used a spigot because I don't have a chuck with a wide enough grip to give me the size of foot that I like. I have never, or very seldom, liked the idea of a bowl or piece that is not stable enough to be used as well as look good.

I almost always use a recess and have not yet found the need or desire to remove or fill it. Nor have I ever had any complaints from anyone who has bought anything from me. I have not had any bother getting a good finish in the recess and one of the ways I have found to get most of that good finish is off of the 1/2" scew chisel used very lightly as a scraper. A light sanding and a good rub with some grey plastic 'scourer' and a polish with my Liberon wax stick and job done

As for the chuck leaving marks? I use an Axminster chuck, can't remember the model, usually fitted with O'Donnel jaws and I have never had any marks left by it no matter how hard it is chucked. The O'Donnel jaw set that I have has 3 different sized jaw set, once again from Axminster, but they don't seem to do the 3 size set anymore? Domage!

 

[johnny.t.]

I like to remove the evidence myself, I prefer to use a spiggot and then reverse and turn it away. To me it looks more finished and allows me to decide the size of the base not the chuck.
Snobbery?,don't be daft its a personal choice like everything else, when you bung a piece of wood on the lathe you create what you want to and finish it as how you see fit......end of story :lol:

JT

 

[loz]

I try to remove chucking methods if i can, if i cannot due to some factor then i try to decorate them.

 

[Lightweeder]

I personally don't find it particularly attractive to see a piece without a base of some sort. I'm learning all the time, but at the moment, like to see a base, albeit a fine one.

 

[treeturner123]

Well let’s wade into this one. I’m with the majority so far, decorate the chucking recess and leave it. There are a number of reasons for this.

Firstly as has been pointed out, it is really only other turners who look, just as they are the only ones who put their fingers inside a hollow form.
Secondly, will a normal buyer at a show/display want to pay more for the time taken to reverse chuck? My experience says No.
Thirdly, many of my pieces are large; in excess of 12 in diameter and so are turned sideway on my coronet. Reverse chucking is therefore somewhat more difficult adding to the cost.
Finally, to my mind, the important part is how an object sits. The biggest issue then is that the chuck recess can dictate the size of the base often making it disproportional large.
I take Cornucopia’s point about pride, but I take pride in finishing the recess as part of the design.
Finally finally, spigots, well if you have lots of spare depth, fine. I’m too Yorkshire to waste wood on something I may be removing. I’d rather put a foot in a different wood.

Treeturner

 

[Bodrighy]

imo- it’s nothing to do with snobbery it’s all to do with your own pride and the care taken to do justice to the wood etc- you will never obtain the same fine finish on a chuck recess as you will on the rest of the piece due to not being able to sand & finish it to the extent of the rest of the piece and you also may or may not get some marks from the jaws. you should finish every piece of your work to the very best of your ability especially if you are selling it as you are representing not only yourself but the woodturning community.
now don’t get me wrong make what pleases you and do it how you want to- but unfortunately if our hobby is ever going to lift itself out of the cheap craft stereotype it’s got..... the level of detail in allot of "craft fair work" must change.... as some (not all) seem to have this "it’ll do" attitude

I agree totally with everything you say except the 'nothing to do with snobbery' part George. I have met a few turners who feel that any evidence of how the piece was held is a sign of bad workmanship and I can't go along with that. Spigots can be cut back and made decorative as can recesses. I think that on the type of work that you do , boxes, hollow forms etc, a spigot or a recess would detract and ideally should be removed but on bowls, platters etc they can be a part of the design. Any piece that can be held over the bed with the tailstock can be reversed and refined with no extra cost other than a scrap board turned to size and some foam so the need for fancy jaws etc is only necessary for out board turned work.

Pete

 

[Paul.J]

I don't mind either way.
When i first started i was just glad to get a piece finished,but as i progressed,if that's what you can call it,i did like to remove the spigot/recess,but if the mood and the wood dictates that i leave a recess on than i leave it on,and finish to match the rest of the piece.
I wouldn't agree that it's only other turners who look and feel.
Most of pieces i have given to someone to look at,they have looked straight away on the bottom and run their fingys round the inside,even complete strangers,and most asking how i've done it.But with the recess left i hardley get asked as they can see and guess how it's done.

 

[petercharlesfagg]

Good to read so many replies and encouraging to notice how many include the recess in the piece turned.

Regards, Peter.

 

[cornucopia]

imo- it’s nothing to do with snobbery it’s all to do with your own pride and the care taken to do justice to the wood etc- you will never obtain the same fine finish on a chuck recess as you will on the rest of the piece due to not being able to sand & finish it to the extent of the rest of the piece and you also may or may not get some marks from the jaws. you should finish every piece of your work to the very best of your ability especially if you are selling it as you are representing not only yourself but the woodturning community.
now don’t get me wrong make what pleases you and do it how you want to- but unfortunately if our hobby is ever going to lift itself out of the cheap craft stereotype it’s got..... the level of detail in allot of "craft fair work" must change.... as some (not all) seem to have this "it’ll do" attitude

I agree totally with everything you say except the 'nothing to do with snobbery' part George. I have met a few turners who feel that any evidence of how the piece was held is a sign of bad workmanship and I can't go along with that. Spigots can be cut back and made decorative as can recesses. I think that on the type of work that you do , boxes, hollow forms etc, a spigot or a recess would detract and ideally should be removed but on bowls, platters etc they can be a part of the design. Any piece that can be held over the bed with the tailstock can be reversed and refined with no extra cost other than a scrap board turned to size and some foam so the need for fancy jaws etc is only necessary for out board turned work.

Pete

well all i can say then Pete is that there is no snobbery on my part

 

[Bodrighy]

I'm sure there isn't George and I hope you don't think I was pointing the finger. Most of the 'snobbery' I have come across has been in a club situation. Listening to some of the more expert turners talking to new ones and telling them that you should always remove all signs of chucking and support as it is a sign of a novice and bad workmanship is in my opinion snobbery. I don't think I have come across it here on the forum at all from anyone

Pete

 

[Richard Findley]

I was trying to resist answering this one but I just can't.....

Let me answer the question with another... Why wouldn't you remove your chucking marks?

It is so simple to do it, (I can post my picture of my set up for you again if you need to see it!!) if you turn with a spigot you waste literally 3-5mm MAX and you know where the bottom of your bowl is when turning the inside, it takes MAX 5mins to remove the spigot so there is vertually no cost implication and the difference those few minutes make are well worth the extra £2.50 it would add to the cost (if you count your time, which I would bet most people don't).

So I ask again, why wouldn't you remove it? If you can give me a good answer I'll start leaving my chucking marks :shock: :shock: :wink: :lol:

Cheers

Richard

 

[Jenx]

I like to leave a small foot on a bowl or platter.. which has usually accommodated a chucking recess... really for one reason ..

It 'elevates' the piece from the surface on which it stands and gives the bowl or platter an 'independence', .. to allow it to 'float' if you will ... I just like that better than seeing a bowl or platter that looks like its 'half sinking' into the tabletop or surface in which its displayed, if you know what i mean.

Having said that though.. I will finish the entire foot and recessed area to the same standard as the rest of the piece ... 'chucking marks' wouldn't be acceptable ! :lol: 8)

 

[Jonzjob]

I gave a smallish ash bowl to some good friends who have just moved into their long awaited house. It has a recess and it was finished properly and in that recess I have pyrographed "Love, health & happiness in your new home. August 2010 J & F" The first thing they both did, independently because he came in after she had received the bowl, was to turn it over when they had felt the top and inners and see the inscription. They were really pleased with it. The inscription is protected by being in the recess.

As for the recess forcing the base to be too big the large jaws on my O'Donnel jaw set are about 3" and the small are about 1" with the middle ones in-between obviously. So I can make the base as big or small as I wish as long as the piece is stable and not stood like a stork on one leg. Sorry, but I don't like unstable pieces no matter how 'elegant' they are supposed to be. Those large jaws will hold a 12" blank securely, no problem.

 

[robo hippy]

I think the 'snobbery' goes back to when it was acceptable to leave face plate screw holes, and screw chuck holes in the bottom of the bowls, and plug them, or cover them with a sticker. It is the other side of the pendulum.

I use a recess exclusively, unless turning end grain. A recess drilled with a forstner bit on the top for turning the bottom of the bowl, and a tooled recess on the bottom for reversing, coring and turning out the inside of the bowl. Only my 'art' pieces get the mounting piece removed. Sanding the inside of a recess is easy with a small disc, especially if you use sharp tools. I get no marks from the chuck because my fit is tight. I do get some iron stains because I turn green wood. No problem, a bit of lemon juice removes it in seconds if you do it when green. My bowls all are warped, and almost none of them sit flat. None of this bothers the customers, and the more the bowls warp, the better they sell.

robo hippy