Chromium oxide bars, or not?
- Thread starter swagman
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swagman
Established Member
I just placed an order for this product. http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Chr ... tml#SID=48
100% pure chromium oxide mixed with a little oil to make the ultimate strop paste.
Rather than removing metal, stropping with chromium oxide smooths, polishes and refines the cutting edge; not unlike the effect water has on clay.
Chromium Oxide (Cr2O3 ) is a superfine, 0.3 micron, polycrystalline abrasive, it is the mineral that gives green polishing compound it’s colour. Most polishing compositions also include other minerals, but for purists like straight razor users, only the best will do.
For most people this 50 gram tub will be a lifetime’s supply.
100% pure chromium oxide mixed with a little oil to make the ultimate strop paste.
Rather than removing metal, stropping with chromium oxide smooths, polishes and refines the cutting edge; not unlike the effect water has on clay.
Chromium Oxide (Cr2O3 ) is a superfine, 0.3 micron, polycrystalline abrasive, it is the mineral that gives green polishing compound it’s colour. Most polishing compositions also include other minerals, but for purists like straight razor users, only the best will do.
For most people this 50 gram tub will be a lifetime’s supply.
profchris
Established Member
Hmm. If it's not removing metal then it's doing something very clever indeed, probably at the atomic or subatomic level by rearranging the atoms of the blade without removing them. I think a Physics Nobel prize is in the works!
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
I have visions of little green sub atomic men running around with sub atomic sledge hammers ... :lol:
matthewwh
Established Member
It's a tricky one to explain.
From a shaving standpoint it's the difference between a close shave and one that is both comfortable and close. You can't see it, but you can certainly feel the difference.
Under a microscope the Cr2O3 particles look like little facetted balls - not dissimilar to the ceramic blocks used in a tumble polishing machine.
It is very hard stuff, 8.5 mohs, but on a strop it is loosely held so the particles are free to move and roll, like millions of tiny burnishers (as opposed to abrasive particles held securely in a substrate that cut the steel and produce a distinct pattern of grooves).
From a shaving standpoint it's the difference between a close shave and one that is both comfortable and close. You can't see it, but you can certainly feel the difference.
Under a microscope the Cr2O3 particles look like little facetted balls - not dissimilar to the ceramic blocks used in a tumble polishing machine.
It is very hard stuff, 8.5 mohs, but on a strop it is loosely held so the particles are free to move and roll, like millions of tiny burnishers (as opposed to abrasive particles held securely in a substrate that cut the steel and produce a distinct pattern of grooves).
swagman
Established Member
Aluminum oxide fused with chrome oxide is a pink abrasive that is used in grinding applications that require slightly more toughness than white fused aluminum oxide. The chrome oxide component of the abrasive enhances its grinding capacity. Although friable and cool cutting, aluminum oxide fused with chrome oxide exhibits strong form-holding characteristics. It is used for precision, broad surface and tool room grinding on hard alloy steels.
http://americanmachinist.com/features/a ... -abrasives
http://americanmachinist.com/features/a ... -abrasives
swagman
Established Member
The reason I posted this information;
I have recently extended my water stone media up to 12000 grit. To achieve an even greater level of polish on the cutting edge of my tools, I wanted to make sure that the Veritas Honing compound I have in my workshop, was able to provide me with that benefit. After further research, I reached a personal conclusion that the use of the Veritas compound after the 12000 grit stone, would actually degrade the level of polish I am already achieving with the 12,000 grit. What others choose to do with this information, is clearly a choice they need to make. In my own case, I have chosen to trial a different product.
I have recently extended my water stone media up to 12000 grit. To achieve an even greater level of polish on the cutting edge of my tools, I wanted to make sure that the Veritas Honing compound I have in my workshop, was able to provide me with that benefit. After further research, I reached a personal conclusion that the use of the Veritas compound after the 12000 grit stone, would actually degrade the level of polish I am already achieving with the 12,000 grit. What others choose to do with this information, is clearly a choice they need to make. In my own case, I have chosen to trial a different product.
matthewwh
Established Member
I have heard that wiping back the slurry and doing a couple more passes with just clean water is the way to get the best finish on very fine waterstones.
Caveat: I haven't tried it myself yet so I can't comment on whether it works, but I work on the principle that if you keep picking up ideas and trying them you occasionally find a nugget.
Caveat: I haven't tried it myself yet so I can't comment on whether it works, but I work on the principle that if you keep picking up ideas and trying them you occasionally find a nugget.
swagman
Established Member
Matthew; trialling a new product is a journey worth exploring.
Stewie;
Stewie;
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Not meaning to be rude, but what do you people who go to these extremes actually use the tools for? What tools? I can understand a degree of fanaticism from carvers, maybe, but that's it. And no, I don't want another sharpening thread. :?
swagman
Established Member
If you don't want to be rude, why bother asking the question Philip.
memzey
Established Member
Possibly because he's interested in finding out what the benefits to a woodworker are of such a level of sharpening? I'd certainly like to understand that a little better myself.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Stewie, it was a perfectly sensible, serious question. I'm not criticising anyone for doing it, I just wonder why it's done?
swagman
Established Member
Phillip; the final honing media should polish the cutting edge, without forming any noticeable wire edge.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Yes, I know what does ... I just wonder why doing it to that degree is worthwhile.
A bare strop removes wire edge particles in a drawing stroke, or faff from the edge in a leading stroke. That is still true on a razor that's been honed with very light pressure on 0.5 micron graded chrome oxide pigment.
Your statement above about the formax wax stick that LV sells (and many others, it's not "veritas" compound, it is the same microfine formax compound sold by several other places, too) degrading the edge from a "12k" stone is incorrect. It will substantially improve the edge from the guangxi hones (I have three of them and have had four, total, and have had microfine compound both from LV and Rockler)
Also, none of the guangxi stones have a "12k" particle size to begin with. That's marketing. If you slurry them, the particles are 3 or 4 microns at the very best (comparing them to japanese stones where that particle size has been studied). There is no natural stone that I'm aware of that has particles smaller than 3 microns on any regular basis, and those are the finest of the japanese hones. 3 microns is the size of the alumina in the shapton professional 5,000 stone. the chinese stones work only to significant fineness when proper technique is applied because the larger particles don't cut as deep.
It would have been better form to get the compound and trial it first and post results than to suppose something long in advance.
Plus, several here have already tried. It would've been even better form yet to just ask, then decide if you want to trial it and post the results. If you are looking for the ultimate in fineness, just order .09 micron iron oxide pigment from kremer pigments. It's not expensive, and it's likely going to leave smaller shallow scratches than anything else you can find. It will also be a waste of time, but so, too, is this whole exercise. Many of us have already wasted the time. Fine abrasives have been available for hundreds of years, but the only practical mention of these that I've found (for woodworking) are in carving manuals of old where someone may not have a fine stone.
Your statement above about the formax wax stick that LV sells (and many others, it's not "veritas" compound, it is the same microfine formax compound sold by several other places, too) degrading the edge from a "12k" stone is incorrect. It will substantially improve the edge from the guangxi hones (I have three of them and have had four, total, and have had microfine compound both from LV and Rockler)
Also, none of the guangxi stones have a "12k" particle size to begin with. That's marketing. If you slurry them, the particles are 3 or 4 microns at the very best (comparing them to japanese stones where that particle size has been studied). There is no natural stone that I'm aware of that has particles smaller than 3 microns on any regular basis, and those are the finest of the japanese hones. 3 microns is the size of the alumina in the shapton professional 5,000 stone. the chinese stones work only to significant fineness when proper technique is applied because the larger particles don't cut as deep.
It would have been better form to get the compound and trial it first and post results than to suppose something long in advance.
Plus, several here have already tried. It would've been even better form yet to just ask, then decide if you want to trial it and post the results. If you are looking for the ultimate in fineness, just order .09 micron iron oxide pigment from kremer pigments. It's not expensive, and it's likely going to leave smaller shallow scratches than anything else you can find. It will also be a waste of time, but so, too, is this whole exercise. Many of us have already wasted the time. Fine abrasives have been available for hundreds of years, but the only practical mention of these that I've found (for woodworking) are in carving manuals of old where someone may not have a fine stone.
swagman
Established Member
David; stop being so childish.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
He did at least attempt an answer. 
I retired defeated.
I retired defeated.Similar threads
