Chisel Choice

[Harbo]

I have been following the thread on LN v LV planes which at times veered to chisels.

I have just been trying to chisel out a broken beech handle from an old plane and I have just proved to myself that my old set of Stanley 5002's are crap!
Despite recently sharpening them, they have chipped after very little use.

So I am now in the market for some new ones but what to choose?
There's Japanese from various sources but with makers I have never heard of?
And there's English like Ashley Iles or American LN?
From what I have read I gather Alf is not too keen on LN's but not too sure about her final thoughts on Japanese? Others seem to favour LN's?

I would like some for general use and DT's.

What's your favourites - any recommendations?

Rod

 

[mr]

I bought a set of AI they chipped to bug£$%y at first use and never really resharpened well. Went back to AI and many months later they were replaced. Can't comment on Japanese - never tried them.
LN - Look nice, feel fantastic & cut nice too. I have one. Im saving for a set.
Mike

 

[Roy Clarke]

I've got some Japanese chisels. They will chip too if you use them on a hard piece of wood, if they have a bevel angle which is too shallow. Your Stanleys may be ok at the right angle. The polish on the edge makes a difference to the edge strength too, and a small score which reaches will be a point of weakness.

 

[Alf]

Rod,

As Roy says - try a higher angle on your Stanleys if they're chipping. LNs, f'rinstance, also need a higher bevel angle or they'll chip too. Also the handle is most likely glued in with hide glue so the apllication of heat and moisture should loosen it up.

Chisel choice is a very subjective thing - one person's best-chisel-ever is another's bête noire. Others say "what the...? It's just a chisel, buy some cheap ones and get on with it". Fwiw my personal objections to the Japanese I tried were three-fold. 1. I really, really hate hooped handles. 2. They don't like to be used for prying - and although I don't do that often anyway, it was a constant nagging worry that I'd one day forget and disaster. 3. Those dips in the back bother me (they have a proper name I believe but I can't recall it). A small idiosyncrasy of mine is to use a wider chisel than required when I can and sort of swivel off the unused area into the work. To my annoyance I found myself dropping the edge of a workpiece into those hollows enough times that they just had to go. On the other hand they took and held an excellent edge.

Ashley Iles seem to have some variability in the end result, but beyond that personally I just can't stand that modern bolster/false socket effect with the brass ferrule. Makes my toes curl. As you may gather I'm not of the "what the...? It's just a chisel, buy some cheap ones and get on with it" school... :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Imperial]

To throw in my tuppence worth, being a student and being careful with money I thought hard about which set to buy. I chose the AI's and have been very happy with them, I had seen and used the LN's which are very small but seem super sharp, Robert Sorby's which were really similar to the AI's but more expensive and a few of the Japanese which we found difficult to get into the Tormec to grind, can't remember why! Everyone seems to be happy with there own choice, no disappointments but I'd say try to use one before making the choice as its personal.

Hope that helps.

 

[ByronBlack]

Two other options: (I can hear people groaning already)

Kirschens.

And older ebay jobbers - I've recently started collecting a range of old ebay chisels from Marples, Ibbotson and so on and so forth. The older steel is excellent, the handels mostly need working on, but for the money I don't think you can get better value.

 

[Scrums]

BB....you don't want to start picking up stuff like that on ebay......

we'll end up in competition with each other!

Chris

 

[ByronBlack]

So thats why I keep missing out on 'bargains'!!

 

[engineer one]

from personal experience sharpening, the latest marples and stanley are not too good in terms of how they retain an edge, and how quickly they go off. i admit my mates abuse them, but even so.

the bahco range ain't too bad for a "conventional" type chisel, but as with all, it seems that your own skill at sharpening has a lot to do with edge retention. :roll:

or try the car boot route to find some older ones and sharpen them, if there are actually any out there anymore :?

paul :wink:

 

[woodbloke]

Rod,

As Roy says - try a higher angle on your Stanleys if they're chipping. LNs, f'rinstance, also need a higher bevel angle or they'll chip too. Also the handle is most likely glued in with hide glue so the apllication of heat and moisture should loosen it up.

Chisel choice is a very subjective thing - one person's best-chisel-ever is another's bête noire. Others say "what the...? It's just a chisel, buy some cheap ones and get on with it". Fwiw my personal objections to the Japanese I tried were three-fold. 1. I really, really hate hooped handles. 2. They don't like to be used for prying - and although I don't do that often anyway, it was a constant nagging worry that I'd one day forget and disaster. 3. Those dips in the back bother me (they have a proper name I believe but I can't recall it). A small idiosyncrasy of mine is to use a wider chisel than required when I can and sort of swivel off the unused area into the work. To my annoyance I found myself dropping the edge of a workpiece into those hollows enough times that they just had to go. On the other hand they took and held an excellent edge.

Ashley Iles seem to have some variability in the end result, but beyond that personally I just can't stand that modern bolster/false socket effect with the brass ferrule. Makes my toes curl. As you may gather I'm not of the "what the...? It's just a chisel, buy some cheap ones and get on with it" school... :lol:

Cheers, Alf

Agree with Alf here. Recent threads on the forum re chisels recommended the 'Two Cherries' brand from Axminster and these also came out very well in a review of chisels done by F&C a while back - Rob

 

[iwood]

Rutlands are pushing their MHG range very hard. Has anyone tried them?

 

[Steve Maskery]

one person's best-chisel-ever is another's bête noire.

I thought Bête Noire used to serve behind the bar at the Rovers Return? Didn't she?

Cloakroom?

S

 

[Anonymous]

I would like some for general use and DT's.

What's your favourites - any recommendations?

Rod

Rod

I have owned Stanley, Record, 2 cherries, japanese, LN and AIs

I still have the AIs and LNs and all the rest are gone as they did not even come close.

The AIs take a sharper dege, but the LNS stay sharp for longer. I prefer the AI handles


For DT work, the LNs are the best around - this is why I bought them; I love cutting DTs as you can see here

 

[Alf]

Cloakroom?

I think so, Steve, yes. Don't want a lynch mob round... :wink:

Would you believe I forgot the Kirschen/Two Cherries? Shame on me. But more hoops. :?

Cheers, Alf

 

[Escudo]

What ho Harbo,

I am not an expert, but following sound advice from the forum I recently purchased the LN chisels. (set of 5) and they are simply superb.

They are so comfortable in the hand, the weighting is lovely and asthetically they look very smart. I went for the cocobolo handles but got a spare hornbeam handle as well.

I know they are expensive around £180 but they will last a lifetime, hold their value and are a pleasure to use. You would not be disappointed if you treated yourself to a set of these.

Happy chiselling!

Esc.

 

[sparky]

Rutlands are pushing their MHG range very hard. Has anyone tried them?

i got the MHG chisels about 1 1/2 years ago as my first 'higher end' chisels for woodworking and they are crap! or at least mine are. the steel bends over very quickly or they chip out easily. i have both the bench chisels and the mortise chisels. the mortise chisles are alright with a steeper angle but they don't stay sharp for long. but the bench chisels are awful. in fact they were the reason that i came arround and saved as much money that i could and after 6 months i just finished getting a set of 6 BARR cabinet makers chisels. for me it was between them or the LN and i thought the LN were too small. i LOVE how well the barr chisels work. they sharpen easily and stay sharp for a long time. it is incredible how easily i can chop out my dovetails with these. they are expensive but worth it. don't waste you time or money on the MHG

a bit long winded sorry...but i had to vent and gloat at the same time

sparky

 

[Harbo]

I had sharpened my Stanley's to 25degrees - it may not have suited them on some beech so will try putting on a 30degree micro bevel and giving them another go?

There's an interesting series on Chisels under way on Finewoodworking.com by Garrett Hack who has a very wide ranging selection of makes, but his more widely used is a set of Bahco's he bought 30 odd years ago.
He does go on to say that steel quality depends very much on the day it was made/forged and to some extent the luck of the draw!

Trawling the internet I came across a number of other forums some extolling the virtues of Japanese hand forged with names like Tasai, Funahiro and Fujiharo - some of the prices are eye watering!!
I think if I had any of them I would want to keep them locked up in a drawer, take them out to admire them, coat them in camellia oil and put them back?

Rod

 

[Harbo]

I do not wish to hog this topic but why do some manufacturers put hoops on their (bench) chisel handles? They certainly spoil the handling I would think as I often push from the back with my rounded-end chisels.

I can understand it on mortice chisels - but my old Stanleys MC's do not have them (but they do have a leather washer) and they have survived many years of mallet bashing.

The Japanese do ( and these are supposed to be fairly delicate?), 2 Cherries do and so do Barr.

How much bashing are you supposed to give a bench chisel?

Rod

 

[ByronBlack]

I only used my kirschens for dovetailing, cleaning up joints and making small sockets, I didn't to really 'bash' them for any of these tasks, and the hoops I must say didn't bother me too much. I don't think you should be really battering bevel edges chisels.

 

[Alf]

many years of mallet bashing.

And there you have it - hoops are to withstand metal hammers (why the Japanese ones have them as I understand). In days of yore folks understood the difference between chisels for careful use at the bench and chisels you whallop the living daylights out of on site. Then that distinction got blurred, plastic handles that could withstand anything, bevel-edged chisels that had lost the point of having the bevel edge etc etc and every chisel was supposed to be able to be pounded on like a meat tenderiser on a tough bit of steak without harm. How d'you do that cheaply on a wooden handle - bleedin' 'oops.

Cheers, Alf