Chip & Dust extractor

[Bluekingfisher]

My long awaited workshop construction has begun, amongst many of my considerations I am thinking about is, chip and dust extraction and what sort/size of extractor I will need.

I know it is difficult to advise on specific machines but I am not sure how much power I will need for my expected requirements.

First of all, its for hobby use although some of my ventures can be quite consuming.

I am also thinking about creating a two stage system whereby the shavings are drawn into a separate container and the dust then onto the extractor. I have no experience of using a two stage in this manner but it seems a simple enough operation providing the secondary receptacle is set up properly.

I would like it to service a full size table saw, planer and a separate thicknesser plus probably a couple of other tools such as bandsaw, mitre saw with individual blast gates. I intend to have a single run of pipe with the extensions branching off the main duct. The run will be about 23 feet or so.

I looked at 2HP machines but they seem huge, would a 1 HP machine be suitable or are they intended for a single machine hook up? Is a 1.5HP machine smaller in size but with enough power?

I was also reading about the duct work material, some of the articles highlighted fire and explosions due to static build up and suggested that metal ducting should be the only consideration. Is this being over cautious or a real threat?

Thanks in advance

 

[Chems]

If it was me, I'd just for go all the messing and get the Axminster cyclone, its pretty expensive but will do what you want whilst containing most of the fine dust.

 

[Dan @ TheLoveOfWood]

In my experience, for what it's worth, I think you'd be wasting time with a 1hp. In a shop set up as a wood shop a 2hp would be more appropriate, and less stress.
One day I'll get a cyclone...

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Thanks folks, I'lldo a bit more research, not sure I want to spend £1300 on an extractor though

 

[yetloh]

I have the Oneida Dust Gorilla 2hp cyclone and it is excellent, if expensive. The great thing about cyclone systems is that they are good at both chips and dust which many other systems are not. For me, it was money well spent. Whatever you choose, plumb in an extra outlet with a dust sweep at floor level. These are a real boon; you just sweep everything on the floor towards it and it disappears up the chute.

As for ducting, you will need a large bore for the main duct - mine is 180mm - if you want maximum efficiency, and this together with the reducers for individual machines is most easily done with spiral metal ducting. Another advantage, apart from avoiding the rather theoretical explosion risk, is that you can steal a few degrees in the joints where this is necessary to deal with minor discrepancies in the direction of the run. This is very difficult to do in plastic. If you have a look at the Oneida US website I believe there is a free ductwork design tool you can use. I didn't need to use it myself as Oneida UK do the duct design for you as part of the service.

Lastly, seal all the joints with foil tape, not duct tape, which tends to dry out and leak.

Jim

 

[Chems]

Thanks folks, I'lldo a bit more research, not sure I want to spend £1300 on an extractor though

New lungs run a good deal more expensive. Get a decent cyclone and be done with it, once you've bought a chip extractor, realized you need a fine filter cartridge and then had to buy a shop vac for your powertools you could have just bought the cyclone. Thats what I'd do second time around for sure. A decent dust collection purchase should be the first thing you buy, and it should be like all tools, the most expensive you can possibly afford. And the lack of quality in this department won't be measured by your work but by how your lungs hold up years down the line.

 

[yetloh]

[/quote]

New lungs run a good deal more expensive. Get a decent cyclone and be done with it, once you've bought a chip extractor, realized you need a fine filter cartridge and then had to buy a shop vac for your powertools you could have just bought the cyclone. Thats what I'd do second time around for sure. A decent dust collection purchase should be the first thing you buy, and it should be like all tools, the most expensive you can possibly afford. And the lack of quality in this department won't be measured by your work but by how your lungs hold up years down the line.[/quote]

Nicely put. Definitely +1 fom me.

Jim

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Point taken on the health and lungs issue gents.

Your replies have raised another couple of questions, What size are the machines and what are noise levels like. I have to consider these options both, due to space and proximity to neighbours. Although the workshop is insulated I would hope for a machine not similar in db's to a jet taking off.

I have only ever used the smaller Camvac machine for hook up to individual power tools and have found it to be suitable for my needs. However now I have some larger machines the need for something more substantial is required, just got to try and find somthing that ticks all boxes.

I like the idea of the floor sweep, what did you use for the mouth collection port? did you make it yourself or is there a market product?

Finally, where is a good place to start looking for spiral metal ducting?

Thanks again

 

[Chems]

The vacs are quite noisy, but the induction motor powered chip extractors are really very quite.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Would that be the Camvac you refering to a quite noisy Chems? or just vacs in general?

 

[Chems]

I don't know about the camvac, but the noise must be quite high as people fit hoses to the exhaust to channel the sound away. Just by the nature of shop vacs they are noisy.

 

[yetloh]

Subjectively, the Oneida is quieter than the small Camvac I used before. The Oneida is bearable without ear defenders, although I always wear them in practice. Induction motors (as in the Oneida) are inherently quieter than brush motors (as in the Camvac, but the large volumes of air moving around the ducting do make a fair amount of noise.

As to spiral ducting, I bought everything as a package from Oneida which may not have been the cheapest but was very convenient. Just put spiral ducting into Google and it will come up with plenty of options. It is worth asking for a deal if you buy all your ducting, elbows, reducers, junctions and blast gates at the same time. I pop rivetted all of mine together.

Jim

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Thanks Gents, That has helped considerably, stumping up over a grand and a half is always hard to bear, although in the long run it may save a whole lot of trouble and will probably last a lot longer than the brush motor in a camvac. ccasion5:

 

[eoinsgaff]

Quick question on this subject - can power tools (circular saws, sanders etc) be connected efficiently to a cyclone? I thought that the cyclone pulls large volumes of air at low pressure while the the shop vac typically for power tools pulled low volumes of air at a high pressure.

Also, from what I read, forget the fancy filter on the cyclone and just vent it out side of the shop into the open air. Far safer and cheaper (in terms of micro fine filters) that trying to vent back into the work shop. Downside is loss of heat.

Eoin

 

[Chems]

Venting does save a lot of time, but it also pulls away all the heat from your shop in the winter.

If you connected a cyclone to a power tool on a smaller diameter hose I imagine it would give a good amount of suck.

 

[Blister]

Thanks folks, I'lldo a bit more research, not sure I want to spend £1300 on an extractor though

Don't think you can get new lungs cheap

spend as much as you can and forget a tool or 2 :wink: till later on :lol:

 

[WellsWood]

If you connected a cyclone to a power tool on a smaller diameter hose I imagine it would give a good amount of suck.

Actually I don't think it will. Cyclones are clever things but their advantage is only in the way they separate out the dust. They are still HVLP machines which rely for efficiency on moving large amounts of air. As soon as the airflow is restricted, by reducing the bore for example, their effectiveness i.e. "suck" drops off dramatically.

For power tool use I think you'll find a vacuum type is the only real option. I have the wall mounted Numatic WMD750 which copes admirably with my bandsaw and tablesaw (haven't tried it with the p/t yet). Being a vacuum extractor it doesn't care how much you reduce the bore so is perfect for sanding routing etc. too. Sub micron filtration as standard with the option of HEPA filter if you want to go mad. It's also surprisingly quiet for a machine with twin 1200w brushed motors - much quieter than similar Camvacs I've heard - but it did require the venting of the exhaust away from the work area as this is where most of the noise is generated. I don't have a sound meter but subjectively I'm sure it's quieter than the ADE1200 it replaced. Highly recommended.

 

[yetloh]

I've heard the one about cyclones not working well with things like routers but have to say it is not my experience. Mine works a whole lot better than my shop vac ever did.

Jim

 

[Chems]

With my triple extractor if I fit it with a small bore hose and reducer the suck is very impressive but the flow reduced. Larger hose moves more air at low pressure, but a smaller hose moves less at higher pressure. Which would be no good for chip extraction say but fine for a router. I use my HVLP system to suck up from the router table fence on a smaller hose and it does very well.

 

[Joiner Jim]

Hi,
I'm interested in building a cyclone using an old woods aerofoil fan. It needs to pull off a wadkin PAR2 planer and I am currently working through the bill pentz design calculations. The design I have in mind would be twin cyclone set over a pair of extended oil drums that hinge to release the bags, then draw off through the aerofoil into a big tubular cartridge. Anyone done anything like this? Does anyone know where to get big (upto 8ft) fine cartridge filters.
If you are looking for spiral ducting and know any combined heat and vent installers, it's their thing.
cheers Jim.