Charnwood W619 Or Axminster Craft AC216TS Table Saw

[stuartpaul]

Hi Bodgers

Is the Draper a clone of the TS200?

Charnwood upgraded the fence this year, as people were complaining about the old one. Good point re fair comparison being the w619 and the ts200.

The quality of the ts200 and ts250 seemed nice in store until I adjusted the blade etc and it all just seemed a bit flimsy and out of alignment. I've seen a few people mention this with regards to the riving knife.

As it stands, I'm tempted to take a punt on the new Ax with the sliding carriage (I'd have to fork out £30 for basic mitre fence anyway so makes sense to spend additional and get that in place of it), then the full base at £100 that has the cupboard. I'd then just sit it on a platform and castors.

I'm still not sure of when it comes out as the delays seem to be ongoing.

Seb,
Have you thought about just the basic saw and making your own sled? I used to have a Kity 419 which was a very good basic saw (similar to the 250) but the sliding table wasn’t a massive amount of use and was easy to knock out of adjustment.
Think carefully about what you want the saw to do and consider how you can achieve that with either the charnwood or the ax.
I’m still waiting for information on the new range and getting a little frustrated at the lack of information from axminster despite several nags.

 

[Seb]

Hi Bodgers

Is the Draper a clone of the TS200?

Charnwood upgraded the fence this year, as people were complaining about the old one. Good point re fair comparison being the w619 and the ts200.

The quality of the ts200 and ts250 seemed nice in store until I adjusted the blade etc and it all just seemed a bit flimsy and out of alignment. I've seen a few people mention this with regards to the riving knife.

As it stands, I'm tempted to take a punt on the new Ax with the sliding carriage (I'd have to fork out £30 for basic mitre fence anyway so makes sense to spend additional and get that in place of it), then the full base at £100 that has the cupboard. I'd then just sit it on a platform and castors.

I'm still not sure of when it comes out as the delays seem to be ongoing.

Seb,
Have you thought about just the basic saw and making your own sled? I used to have a Kity 419 which was a very good basic saw (similar to the 250) but the sliding table wasn’t a massive amount of use and was easy to knock out of adjustment.
Think carefully about what you want the saw to do and consider how you can achieve that with either the charnwood or the ax.
I’m still waiting for information on the new range and getting a little frustrated at the lack of information from axminster despite several nags.

A sled is definitely an option. That's what I have been doing up until now with my basic Scheppach saw. It's definitely frustrating as you say. I've down the 2 hour round trip twice now. The first time I was told the end of December but regardless I could pre-order online (not true), and the second time I was told the first week of the new year (the store just had all the old hobby stuff reduced a little). The manager gave me his card and said to ring/email this week. I intend to do that tomorrow. They don't respond to messages on Instagram and FB in my experience (messaged them once mid December re the state of one of their block planes I had delivered - it's going to need a lot of work to get it right, and the second time to ask for an update re the craft range).

To be fair to Axminster, the store manager did seem really frustrated by the whole situation, and made a number of calls whilst I was in store to try and get some updates. Should the range be as good as it appears to be, I'll likely go for one of their Craft bandsaws too instead of the Record Power 250 I've seen on offer.

 

[Gregers]

I believe Axminster have indicated that their new Craft saws will be available early February. They might well be - but they've already missed a few projected dates for delivery.

 

[Bodgers]

Hi Bodgers

Is the Draper a clone of the TS200?

Charnwood upgraded the fence this year, as people were complaining about the old one. Good point re fair comparison being the w619 and the ts200.

The quality of the ts200 and ts250 seemed nice in store until I adjusted the blade etc and it all just seemed a bit flimsy and out of alignment. I've seen a few people mention this with regards to the riving knife.

As it stands, I'm tempted to take a punt on the new Ax with the sliding carriage (I'd have to fork out £30 for basic mitre fence anyway so makes sense to spend additional and get that in place of it), then the full base at £100 that has the cupboard. I'd then just sit it on a platform and castors.

I'm still not sure of when it comes out as the delays seem to be ongoing.

I think they have always said January. I asked them a few weeks back and they said it is likely to be late January.



Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk

 

[woodbloke66]

I used to have a Kity 419 which was a very good basic saw (similar to the 250) but the sliding table wasn’t a massive amount of use and was easy to knock out of adjustment.
Think carefully about what you want the saw to do and consider how you can achieve that with either the charnwood or the ax.

The first tablesaur I had was the K419 and as you rightly say, a nice little saw but the slider wasn't a lot of use; difficult to set up and not especially accurate. The Charnwood saws use the same type of arrangement with exactly the same issues. In the end I got fairly disenchanted with table saws and decided to go down the bandsaw route instead which suits the way I work; it's not for everybody but I prefer it as the bs has a much tidier 'footprint' in a smaller workshop which leaves room for a big router table (much more useful)
When I first started to buy machinery, I thought that a tablesaur was a 'must have' bit of kit, but once I thought about my own way of working I very soon realised that for me, it was the least important machine in the 'shop, so yep, it's really about what you want the saw to do and ultimately...do you actually need one? - Rob

 

[Seb]

I used to have a Kity 419 which was a very good basic saw (similar to the 250) but the sliding table wasn’t a massive amount of use and was easy to knock out of adjustment.
Think carefully about what you want the saw to do and consider how you can achieve that with either the charnwood or the ax.

The first tablesaur I had was the K419 and as you rightly say, a nice little saw but the slider wasn't a lot of use; difficult to set up and not especially accurate. The Charnwood saws use the same type of arrangement with exactly the same issues. In the end I got fairly disenchanted with table saws and decided to go down the bandsaw route instead which suits the way I work; it's not for everybody but I prefer it as the bs has a much tidier 'footprint' in a smaller workshop which leaves room for a big router table (much more useful)
When I first started to buy machinery, I thought that a tablesaur was a 'must have' bit of kit, but once I thought about my own way of working I very soon realised that for me, it was the least important machine in the 'shop, so yep, it's really about what you want the saw to do and ultimately...do you actually need one? - Rob

Hi Rob

Thanks for the advice.

I've had this exact thought on a few occasions over the last couple of months. I've managed the last year without using the table saw, other than for ripping some Oak sleepers for a 4 metre wide TV unit/fish tank stand I made back in the Summer. The thing is, I think this is only because I've been finding ways around it rather than not needing one. I think the quality of my work will go up once I have one. I contemplated spending similar money on the best bandsaw I could get, and going the cheaper route on the table saw for ripping and crosscutting work (I make a lot of table tops using large hardwood slabs), but I've started leaning the other way in recent weeks, as hopefully I could achieve what I want on a £300 band saw, e.g. shaping legs for my tables, and resawing wood when I make smaller items (I also make tealight holders, chopping blocks, and sometimes lamps when people want to order them as gifts for Birthdays and Christmas etc).

By the way, I clicked the link in your signature to look at some of your pieces. Incredible work sir!

 

[woodbloke66]

Hi Rob

Thanks for the advice.

I've had this exact thought on a few occasions over the last couple of months. I've managed the last year without using the table saw, other than for ripping some Oak sleepers for a 4 metre wide TV unit/fish tank stand I made back in the Summer. The thing is, I think this is only because I've been finding ways around it rather than not needing one. I think the quality of my work will go up once I have one. I contemplated spending similar money on the best bandsaw I could get, and going the cheaper route on the table saw for ripping and crosscutting work (I make a lot of table tops using large hardwood slabs), but I've started leaning the other way in recent weeks, as hopefully I could achieve what I want on a £300 table saw, e.g. shaping legs for my tables, and resawing wood when I make smaller items (I also make tealight holders, chopping blocks, and sometimes lamps when people want to order them as gifts for Birthdays and Christmas etc).

By the way, I clicked the link in your signature to look at some of your pieces. Incredible work sir!

Seb, if that thought had crossed your mind, then you're thinking along the same lines as me. If I were doing table tops in hardwood, I would rough cut to size with a hand held circular saw ('Skill saw') and then use the p/t to bring the component parts to size. Fwiw, when I was working in the trade some years ago, this is exactly how we used to cut up huge planks of Euro Oak that were simply too big to get onto a saw bench...stick some battens under the planks on the floor, mark out roughly with thick pencil lines (or a string line) and start sawing.
If you make up a little jig you can cross cut very accurately with a Skill saw (that's my article btw, not Laura's and I haven't had an op :lol: :lol: ) and for really accurate work, nothing beats a shooting board on the bench top.
If you were to buy a £300 table saw you might well be disappointed with what it will actually do for you...I know I was. On the other hand, a £300 bs ought not to disappoint, the only down side is that you need to keep a goodly stock of blades in the 'shop.
Thanks also for looking at the projects done recently; all of them were made without using a tablesaur. One of the great things with a bs is that you can produce your own thick veneers and many of the projects were constructed in this way - Rob

 

[Seb]

Hi Rob

Thanks for the advice.

I've had this exact thought on a few occasions over the last couple of months. I've managed the last year without using the table saw, other than for ripping some Oak sleepers for a 4 metre wide TV unit/fish tank stand I made back in the Summer. The thing is, I think this is only because I've been finding ways around it rather than not needing one. I think the quality of my work will go up once I have one. I contemplated spending similar money on the best bandsaw I could get, and going the cheaper route on the table saw for ripping and crosscutting work (I make a lot of table tops using large hardwood slabs), but I've started leaning the other way in recent weeks, as hopefully I could achieve what I want on a £300 table saw, e.g. shaping legs for my tables, and resawing wood when I make smaller items (I also make tealight holders, chopping blocks, and sometimes lamps when people want to order them as gifts for Birthdays and Christmas etc).

By the way, I clicked the link in your signature to look at some of your pieces. Incredible work sir!

Seb, if that thought had crossed your mind, then you're thinking along the same lines as me. If I were doing table tops in hardwood, I would rough cut to size with a hand held circular saw ('Skill saw') and then use the p/t to bring the component parts to size. Fwiw, when I was working in the trade some years ago, this is exactly how we used to cut up huge planks of Euro Oak that were simply too big to get onto a saw bench...stick some battens under the planks on the floor, mark out roughly with thick pencil lines (or a string line) and start sawing.
If you make up a little jig you can cross cut very accurately with a Skill saw (that's my article btw, not Laura's and I haven't had an op :lol: :lol: ) and for really accurate work, nothing beats a shooting board on the bench top.
If you were to buy a £300 table saw you might well be disappointed with what it will actually do for you...I know I was. On the other hand, a £300 bs ought not to disappoint, the only down side is that you need to keep a goodly stock of blades in the 'shop.
Thanks also for looking at the projects done recently; all of them were made without using a tablesaur. One of the great things with a bs is that you can produce your own thick veneers and many of the projects were constructed in this way - Rob

Hi Rob

I've actually just corrected my previous post, as I meant to put "hopefully I could achieve what I want on a £300 Band Saw"...so I agree with your comments re the band saw. You certainly get a lot of machine for your money when looking at them.

I actually work exactly the way you mention when cutting stock to rough dimensions! The simple repeatability I guess is something I am looking for in the table saw, for cutting smaller components. Thank you for the link to the jig build, that's great. I may have wondered about your 'change' without the forewarning haha!

The joint work in those projects on your page are brilliant. I'd love to incorporate them more into my table builds, but I think I need to up my practice on hand cut joints in between orders (I have a full time job, have my woodworking business part time, and a 1 year old baby, so it's been a tough first year in business )

 

[Ttrees]

You will struggle to find a bandsaw for your use at that price Seb.
Especially if you have a tablesaw allready, you will want a machine that you will find usable for ripping large stock.
That's a 20" bandsaw your talking about.
I advice you if you haven't used a small bandsaw before, to test a friends one to see what you think before spending your
hard earned.

At this money for your circumstances, Its three phase machines what suits IMO
I don't think any insurer could have an issue with a VFD, operating a tablesaw is the dangerous part,
and not which type of induction motor it has.
Everyone agrees on the proper way to install these, there is no differing opinions.
It is easy and straight forward to do well.
Just saying

Sorry if I seem to be badgering ya
Good luck
Tom

 

[Seb]

You will struggle to find a bandsaw for your use at that price Seb.
Especially if you have a tablesaw allready, you will want a machine that you will find usable for ripping large stock.
That's a 20" bandsaw your talking about.
I advice you if you haven't used a small bandsaw before, to test a friends one to see what you think before spending your
hard earned.

At this money for your circumstances, Its three phase machines what suits IMO
I don't think any insurer could have an issue with a VFD, operating a tablesaw is the dangerous part,
and not which type of induction motor it has.
Everyone agrees on the proper way to install these, there is no differing opinions.
It is easy and straight forward to do well.
Just saying

Sorry if I seem to be badgering ya
Good luck
Tom

Hi Tom

It's home insurance that will cover a woodworker working from home that's the issue full stop so far for me. It's almost as if the only data they have is that we all just leave oily rags in a pile of sawdust along with leaving all the machinery running whilst we pop out to the shop. Hence the reason I simply have products and PL at the moment, and need to look at switching my home insurance come renewal.

Re a bandsaw, going forward the stock I'd be running through I'd expect to be 80mm at the most, so I'd have thought the maximum cut of 135mm ish on most £300 machines would do for now.

I've managed to make units 3 times the size and thickness I'm planning to going forward with just my cheap Scheppach Table Saw, and circular, along with my Kity single phase PT, so I really don't see the necessity for going big and industrial with my upgrades. Also, I have to consider space (single car garage is my workshop), although I do use the space extremely well.

 

[Seb]

A quick update guys.

The new Axminster Craft saw is due in tomorrow according to the Warrington store. It will not come with the option of the extension table.

I have decided because of this, that my current budget of £600 would be better spent on a bigger bandsaw. Therefore I am looking at the Axminster Craft AC2606B version. This is also due in next week. The smaller versions are getting really good reviews.

 

[Bodgers]

A quick update guys.

The new Axminster Craft saw is due in tomorrow according to the Warrington store. It will not come with the option of the extension table.

I have decided because of this, that my current budget of £600 would be better spent on a bigger bandsaw. Therefore I am looking at the Axminster Craft AC2606B version. This is also due in next week. The smaller versions are getting really good reviews.

Site is now stating late February. I wouldn't hold your breath. They are now on the third date/time period for this...

 

[Nick.]

Site is now stating late February. I wouldn't hold your breath. They are now on the third date/time period for this...

This can be the reality of correctly sourcing newly designed machines though - I am in the same position where anticipated deadlines suddenly change due to unforeseen design/tooling or just production issues that sometimes seem trivial but still need to be done - they can then suddenly postpone things by months.

I'm at least 6 months behind where I thought I would be by now & that's with top notch factories and a big USA brand working on it too - these things happen.

Always a tricky one to actually say when new products are available when you are planning a long way ahead - only real guarantee is when they actually land in UK - and even a forecast landing date can be knocked to six when the boat decides to suddenly dock elsewhere first.

Fun and games - but I'm sure every supplier is as frustrated as the customer when things are delayed.

Cheers,
Nick

 

[Seb]

Bodgers - Axminster advised me 22nd Feb for the saw and two larger bandsaws. The smaller two are already in stock.

Nick - I agree. Frustrating, but there are so many factors that could cause those delays. I'm going to trust my gut on this, and hang fire for them as I'm just not overly impressed by anything on the market in a similar price range.

 

[M_Chavez]

Hi All,

Funnily enough, I have recently decided that it's about time I got myself a mini table saw. Was looking at Byrnes (too small) and Inca (too expensive) and, just by accident found this new Axi saw. I hope we will become good friends and she'll keep company for my Axi bandsaw (who's getting a bit lonely, surrounded by Warco stuff). Was looking at charnwood too, but she's bigger and I'm not too concerned about the size (the axi is a size or two bigger than I'd normally need)
Space and noise are an issue, so I need to buy/build a portable base for it. What would be your advice for maximum noise reduction? Axi steel stand, Axi legs or shop-made plywood box on a 2x4 frame on 4 castors?

Also, would you recommend any essential tools/jigs for a table saw (never owned one). Main intended is use is lutherie, so cutting/rebating wee stuff, squaring off small/medium sized neck blanks, perhaps jointing soundboards (if it is even possible to get an ultra-accurate joint on a ts?). Accuracy is paramount (and I hope that Axi will be accurate enough).

Thanks!

 

[woodbloke66]

Accuracy is paramount (and I hope that Axi will be accurate enough).

Thanks!

It probably won't and neither will any other (IMO) small hobbyist tablesaur. If you want accuracy, you need to spend lots of money, Felder style - Rob

 

[stuartpaul]

Site is now stating late February. I wouldn't hold your breath. They are now on the third date/time period for this...

This can be the reality of correctly sourcing newly designed machines though - I am in the same position where anticipated deadlines suddenly change due to unforeseen design/tooling or just production issues that sometimes seem trivial but still need to be done - they can then suddenly postpone things by months.

I'm at least 6 months behind where I thought I would be by now & that's with top notch factories and a big USA brand working on it too - these things happen.

Always a tricky one to actually say when new products are available when you are planning a long way ahead - only real guarantee is when they actually land in UK - and even a forecast landing date can be knocked to six when the boat decides to suddenly dock elsewhere first.

Fun and games - but I'm sure every supplier is as frustrated as the customer when things are delayed.

Cheers,
Nick

Don't disagree Nick but then they shouldn't have launched it until they had some to sell surely?

I think Axminster badly dropped the ball on this one.

 

[transatlantic]

Don't disagree Nick but then they shouldn't have launched it until they had some to sell surely?

I think Axminster badly dropped the ball on this one.

They seem to be doing the same with the AC250PT ?

 

[woodbloke66]

... they shouldn't have launched it until they had some to sell surely?

I think Axminster badly dropped the ball on this one.

Nope, it's a marketing trick; this sort of thing is happens all the time; done so the product, whatever it may be, isn't launched 'cold' without prior knowledge. I expect other companies do this sort of thing as well - Rob

 

[transatlantic]

I'd be super curious to know how many they're getting in.

I'll be one of the ones waiting for the reviews to come in and then find that they're out of stock. :roll: