chair mistake

[Jezmaster]

While reglueung my mates chairs, ive manged to brake one of the legs off. it has torn clean away from its fibres, and it the part that meats the seat ring bit.

chair is made of some sort of brown ish harwood.

What would be best way of repairing this mistake,

and what glue is best to use for stregth,


thanks

 

[PAC1]

Any chance of a picture so that we can assess the problem!

 

[TheTiddles]

chair is made of some sort of brown ish harwood.

Well, that narrows it down a bit!

Aidan

 

[Night Train]

Is the chair worth anything? A photo would be useful. Also is it a front or back leg? The back legs of a chair have to be really strong and so most repairs are not going to work.

If it is valuable then maybe a hefty dowel would join the leg back together if you can get the fibres to realign. The dowel will need to be drilled square and true on both sides of the break and that can be fiddly to get right so a one off jig will be required. Alternatively if there is little financial value and it doesn't matter about the appearance too much then you can glue the leg back together just by realigning the fibres and then when the glue has cured you can use a router and cut a deep grove along the back or side of the leg to bridge the break and then glue in an insert of matching hardwood. A few thin but deep inserts would be better then one thick one.

Neither repair will be strong and the chair would only really be good for making up a set.

A stronger and more fiddly repair would be to splice the leg in the same way as a snooker cue is made but it would depend on how much leg there is on each side of the break.

However, given that you have managed to break a leg I would question if the chair is worth the effort of repairing it unless there is sentimental value. If it is a valuable antique then that is a different matter.

 

[neilyweely]

Jez

First of all remember that whatever you do now is permanent, and make sure you know what you are gonna do is gonna work. :?

Night train is right about the dowelling; I have a spindle from a huge old staircase which is broken and needs repairing (I thought about turning a new one but would never get the same look to the timber, something that would spoil the whole caboodle) so I reckon this is the way I am going to go myself. However my spindle is never gonna have to stand up to the same stresses as your chair leg. Maybe if you were to buy a longer, thicker piece of dowelling and drill out a larger hole then I reckon you might just get away with it. I can't really see a better way forward for you, but my knowledge on such matters is limited to say the least.

It would be good to know how thick the chair leg is and whether or not there is any special design around the break area. As has been said - a photo would be good. There are folk round this parish that are expert in this field and will be able to help far better than I.

HTH

Neil

PS - If it is worth anything leave well alone.

 

[Jezmaster]

okeis, will take a picture tomoz,

its part of a 6 piece set, so its important to get it fixed

grain of wood religns nice, not spilt much out, qute a clean tear.


his precvios chairs had a metal bracket placed on underside coz they were loose, as a temp solution.

he's more than happy to allow me to place the bracket on this one too.

ill show in pic tomoz.

as for glue, wht would be the best?

that glue thts in a syringe, (~aridite) i think it is. ???


cheers all

 

[maltrout512]

I think the problem is in the (chair mistake) title. Sorry to say, but how many times I've heard the saying I was doing it for a mate. All hell breaks!! loose. What was going to be a five minute job turns around to be a nightmare. Don't get me wrong I have been there. The real test starts now in that you have to get yourself out of it. What has been said is quite right but you mentioned another chair has a metal bracket on a leg. Errmmm well someone else has been down the same road. If he is happy with that then do it, and learn, it's not the best solution by far. I have had to dowel side board table legs, table legs and chair legs that have been broken before. Never a easy task but I dowel out to take a 10mm metal rod 150mm either side of the break depending where the break is. The old saying, it's easy to get into trouble, It's a lot harder getting out of it.
Wish you well.

 

[Night Train]

Make sure you take photos of the whole chair as well as the detail around the break. Also if the other chairs have been repaired then some quick photos of those as well would help.
It all sets the scene as they say.

It may be that the chairs are breaking or legs are becoming loose because the chairs are not very good quality. In which case it may not be worth your time repairing as you replace the whole set for less money then your time is worth.

From an engineering viewpoint a long dowel is good but it should really be tapered or stepped to gradually reduce the stresses of the repair along each side of the break. That would mean a lot of turning.

My feeling would be that if it is a back leg then I wouldn't bother repairing the break. It would be safer (and potentially easier) to make a whole new leg.

 

[Jezmaster]

 

[big soft moose]

oh dear - as brads avatar used to say " can we fix it .... no its fooked "

given that its a back leg at the stressor point nothing you do is going to be strong enough for it to be used - therefore if you want to just fix it for appearances you may as well just glue it , i'd be inclined to use titebond II or something similar and then tape it up with masking tape while the glue dries - just remember to tell your mate not to sit on it.

If you dont mind me asking how the heck did you do that by accident ?

 

[Night Train]

Hmmm, nasty break. Looks like the grain direction on the leg wasn't taken into consideration when it was shaped. The grain seems to run in the direction of the break surface and right at the weakest point too. Bad selection of timber in manufacture.

Don't waste time on making it strong enough to use.

Apply adhesive (PVA, Araldite, or whatever) to both surfaces making sure that it is well brushed into the grain to reduce air gaps. Reassemble making sure the fibres are well aligned.

Use a ratchet strap around the seat frame, with lots of padding to protect the rest of the frame, to apply pressure on the overall joint and then use a small cramp for the top and bottom edges of the joint to make sure that it is squeezed tight. A further big G cramp underneath the seat may also help.

Clean up the squeezed out adhesive and then never sit on the chair.

Good luck.

 

[Jezmaster]

dammm, looks like ive had it.

I managed to break it by using a quick grip cramp as a spreader, then i gave it a wack with a rubber mallet.

just goes to show how strong tht glue was,

would tht expoxy resin that is in a syringe do the job, looks like its strong stuff.?

b & q sell it i think.

i might be able to drill from the back, either a screw or put some dowl just to add bit of strength.


thanks for all your imput guys.

gonna attack it tommorw.
let you know on outcome 8)

 

[Grinding One]

Make a new leg! It is not going to be worth having a lawsuit filed against you if someone gets hurt with it.

 

[big soft moose]

what i dont get is why you were trying to get the joint apart if its that solid - it is only worth regluing joints that are wonky.

As the others hae said any glue will do, even pva but theres no way whatever you do will be strong enough to take the strain of being used.

Like G1 said the only foolproof method is to make a new leg , but then of course you need to get the old joint apart - the wood looks like teak to me btw

frankly unless its valuable it aint worth the hassle , just bin it and apologise - and if it is valuable you shouldnt be messing with it in the first place.

 

[Jezmaster]

coz all the other chairs legs were loose apart from one chair.

and i never really looked at this on, just went straight in for the kill,
the other side of the leg was loose

 

[Grinding One]

Sometimes its better to shoot in a little glue with a needle then to go and rip the joint apart.

 

[Setch]

As a dissenting voice; if that break goes together cleanly, you can just clamp it up with titebond, hot hide glue, or a good quality aliphatic resin, and it'll be as strong as it was before. Which is to say, not very strong, as the grain is aligned poorly, resulting in shortgrain where you least want it, further complicated by the removal or timber for the M&T joints.

But, a well clamped glue joint that close completely tight, will be as good as new. The only difficultly is achieving that joint, which will require clever clamping.

 

[MIGNAL]

i think Setch has this right. forget the Araldite. If you have experience with Hide then use that, otherwise Titebond might be the best alternative. You need to come up with some way of clamping it so that everything aligns perfectly - especially when the slippy glue goes on. Practice without glue.

 

[Night Train]

Although a glued part of a joint should be stronger then the parent wood I wouldn't like to say this of a break.

If the two parts were fresh pieces carefully planed smooth and then glued and cramped then it would have as much strength as a peice made out of solid with the same grain direction.

In this case I suspect that there would be tearing and weakening of the grain structure on each side of the break. Any adhesive would only be working on the two exposed surfaces leaving any other weak or torn grain unadhered. The leg would easily break again along a new weak area adjacent to the break and caused by the original break.

Anyway, that would be my opinion based on what I can see, and assume, from the images. I wouldn't risk trusting it to any form of surface bonding without additional external bracing and support.

 

[Setch]

With the correct clamping (read: a couple of dry runs to get the technique perfect) I think that'll pull up nicely. I've just re-reviewed the pics posted, and there is very little evidence of hairy tearing, it looks like a perfect long grain break. I've repaired this kind of break on guitar headstocks and it's ended up nearly invisible, and every bit as strong as before.

I'd perfect the clamping - probably using the method night train suggested, or a spanish windlass, and then glue it all up and test it after 48 hours of drying. Sit on it yourself. Worst case, it fails again and you can proceed with the other options of mechanical reinforcement or replacement.