Ceiling rose to flush fitting- help needed

[stuckinthemud]

I need to swap my standard loop--in ceiling rose for a flush fit (new, non-pendant light fitting), I'm not a sparks, but the advice the guy in the shop gave me to swap the ceiling rose for a multiblock connector doesn't feel right. Any advice? Getting in a professional has already been blocked by household accounts dept...

 

[Cabinetman]

Not sure exactly what it is you’re trying to change it to, so it depends how much weight is going to be hanging, from what really. The electrics on what you’ve shown is relatively simple there are three brass connector strips which you could replicate with a chocolate block as I called them and shove it back up into the ceiling, as I said it depends what it is you’re hanging from it and how much it weighs, you may need to go in the attic and put a noggin across between the joists although it’s quite probable that there is already one there. Ian

 

[Ollie78]

Get some wago connectors (I used 221`s )and a wago box enclosure. These are very simple to use and the boxes are safe to be left in voids etc.
Replicate the wiring of the ceiling rose inside the box thus preserving the switched live etc. Run the positive and negative (the brown and blue in your example) to your new light fitting.
The box can be put inside the loft or floor void etc.

Did pretty much the whole house this way when we changed to all led fittings.

Ollie

 

[flying haggis]

using choc block and tape in the ceiling void is not really the best way. a proper junction box like this is much better

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Quickwire-...P1CTJ3EVQW6&psc=1&refRID=8K6PFSTQNP1CTJ3EVQW6from the pic do you have two way switching for the light? as you seem to have a conductor missing. again from the pic wagos in box might be better

 

[stuckinthemud]

Thanks all. Wago clips look way easier than choc blocks! It's just a single switch, I'd disconnected the earth before I thought to take a photo. Its a downstairs light so I fastened to a ceiling joist. There's a bit of filling required to make good where the rose was but in the end I went with the choc blocks as that is what I had to hand, definitely going to buy a bag of wagos though.

 

[pe2dave]

Agree with @Ollie78 - but first, check how much room you have above the plaster? Then make as big a hole as you can get away with, bearing in mind your new 'flush' fitting needs something to screw into? Wego without a box, if room as tight.

 

[NetBlindPaul]

For information, as the job is completed by the sound of things.
“Chock block” connectors “stuffed” in the ceiling void, is not compliant with BS7671.
I understand that you are doing this as a DIY job, but, you need to realise that your insurance company will have expectations within the small print of your policy, and you still have a legal obligation to comply with the building regulations.
Guidance document P refers, and whilst the work might not be notifiable, it is not absolved from comply.
Wago connectors (other brands are available, as long as they are compliant), & a suitable maintenance free junction box (has to be designated as such to be compliant) would meet the requirements of BS 7671, & thus building regulations.
Therefore it should meet any insurance policy requirements, providing you have test documents to comply with the requirements of BS 7671 to prove that the circuit is still sound following the modification.

 

[pe2dave]

Therefore it should meet any insurance policy requirements, providing you have test documents to comply with the requirements of BS 7671 to prove that the circuit is still sound following the modification.

Am I right in thinking that after any change to wiring an inspection is required? Is this for *most* household buildings insurance?
I had a new dist board installed and the entire house was inspected / tested / errors (from builders) corrected. Not quite an arm
and leg, but close.

 

[stuckinthemud]

NetBlindPaul, thankyou, I had a strong feeling multiblock connectors were not compliant, hence the question, if I know my better half, the fitting won't be up long and I'll replace with wagos

 

[pe2dave]

If a downstairs ceiling, how big a hole is needed to get a Wago connector box through?

 

[Jake]

There are a few types, the smallest one uses the lighting type 224 connectors. For the nicer 221 lever connectors, 39 x 44.
Enclosures | WAGO GB

 

[Stevekane]

I realise this is a minefield but,,where is the switched live in the picture getting its power from? Could it be from a multiway switch perhaps? Only asking as I like to feel I sort of understand these things,,
Steve.

 

[pe2dave]

I realise this is a minefield but,,where is the switched live in the picture getting its power from? Could it be from a multiway switch perhaps? Only asking as I like to feel I sort of understand these things,,
Steve.

This might help.

 

[Stevekane]

Hi Dave and many thanks, however try as I might I cannot see the 3rd live that I expected in the photo, usual thing is a bunch of 3 “reds” but there is only two shown I think, the 3rd red shown is you would expect the switched live,,,so where is it getting its power from?
Steve

 

[pe2dave]

Hi Dave and many thanks, however try as I might I cannot see the 3rd live that I expected in the photo, usual thing is a bunch of 3 “reds” but there is only two shown I think, the 3rd red shown is you would expect the switched live,,,so where is it getting its power from?
Steve

Does it not match up to the circuit at Ceiling rose wiring (older cable colours) ?
Normally, switched live is via the switch? Mains lighting ring, via switch, to light socket?
You don't say (or I missed it) if it is single switch, or double (top and bottom of stairs for example).

 

[GuitardoctorW7]

Get some wago connectors (I used 221`s )and a wago box enclosure. These are very simple to use and the boxes are safe to be left in voids etc.
Replicate the wiring of the ceiling rose inside the box thus preserving the switched live etc. Run the positive and negative (the brown and blue in your example) to your new light fitting.
The box can be put inside the loft or floor void etc.

Did pretty much the whole house this way when we changed to all led fittings.

Ollie

Yep, what he said. Just started using them excellent product

 

[NetBlindPaul]

Am I right in thinking that after any change to wiring an inspection is required? Is this for *most* household buildings insurance?
I had a new dist board installed and the entire house was inspected / tested / errors (from builders) corrected. Not quite an arm
and leg, but close.

The requirements for insp and testing are within the British Standard, this document is referenced in the Approved Document (P) for compliance with the Building Regulations.
The onus is on the person undertaking the work to inspect and test, complying with the requirements of BS 7671.
The onus for compliance with Building Regulations is on the property owner. (There might be slight differences in the wording and responsibility across the whole spectrum of property).
The requirements are that the work is safe and compliant with the requirements and that it can be demonstrated, by, for example, suitable certification as required by BS 7671.

 

[pe2dave]

In (simple) summary @NetBlindPaul just test the modified wiring.