Cedar Wood: Are there any precautions / tips I need to know about

[Jonn Scott]

Hi, wish to know of any tips for working with Red Cedar before commencing on big window frame, 1C restoration project. Will be using a Mortice machine, buzzer, plunge router and saw bench if needed, all of which I have limited experience with. Intend on a pre-run on pine wood for first frame . Cedar splits / splinters too easy and intend to wrap ends in masking tape as a precaution. Window frames are approx 3' x 6' each and theres 16 to make AND they are all to be mortise and tenoned and wedged together. Zero glue and zero tolerance zero mistakes. (last time I used imperial was 1968 but its any old school project) any help would be greatly appreciated. (btw we only get to check emails weekly at the cafe as we have no internet) thanks.

 

[PAC1]

I am not sure that Cedar is a good choice for windows partly for the reasons you give and whilst it is quite durable it is not particularly strong. So I would be asking why it has to be Cedar.

 

[AJB Temple]

For large frames do you have access to a spindle? There is generally quite a lot of moulding (not just rebates) before you start the joinery.
Cedar will be OK if painted. It's used traditionally on greenhouses of course, but windows have a lot of movement (opening and closing) and a lot of joints for water ingress.

Zero glue? Seriously? Are the 3ft by 6ft panels single panes?

 

[Inspector]

No comment on how to build the windows, just a mention that Red Cedar is one of those woods that can be rough in the lungs. You go from having no problem working with it to having severe reactions to it in a hurry. Wear a good respirator.
Pete

 

[Ollie78]

Its super soft, the morticer chisel will need to be very sharp.
I made a few cedar windows and it was a bit of a pain to be honest. Had to match the cedar cladding, struggled to get big enough stock for the cills etc.
I would certainly recommend at least some glue, its so soft the effectiveness of the wedges is probably less than normal.

Finished mine with morrells water bourne clear, they looked nice but no idea how they lasted.

Scoring any cuts and mortices with a knife before cutting really helps keep it clean.
Be very careful with it as its easy to dent.

Smells really nice though.

Ollie

 

[Muskoka man]

Hi, wish to know of any tips for working with Red Cedar before commencing on big window frame, 1C restoration project. Will be using a Mortice machine, buzzer, plunge router and saw bench if needed, all of which I have limited experience with. Intend on a pre-run on pine wood for first frame . Cedar splits / splinters too easy and intend to wrap ends in masking tape as a precaution. Window frames are approx 3' x 6' each and theres 16 to make AND they are all to be mortise and tenoned and wedged together. Zero glue and zero tolerance zero mistakes. (last time I used imperial was 1968 but its any old school project) any help would be greatly appreciated. (btw we only get to check emails weekly at the cafe as we have no internet) thanks.

As descibed by others western red cedar is expensive, beautiful, soft, lightweight and dodgy to breath in. I used it to make garden furniture for a few years without any real problems. Then it put me in hospital. I was rushed in by a pal who thought i was having a heart attack. Chest pains, profuse sweating, difficulty breathing, the works. I was wired up to various gadgets and kept in for a day or two but recovered and given the all clear. Mystery to us all as I didnt make the cedar connection. Took a week out of the workshop then back to work. Same again but this time i had been talking to a supplier in Ontario who said they often get people who cant work with WRC due to severe allergy. As its rare in the UK doctors dont suspect it. It gets worse until you cant even be in the same room as red cedar without a severe reaction. I stopped using it and im fine now. And of course most people will be OK but be aware and wear a P3 dust mask.

 

[Jonn Scott]

I am not sure that Cedar is a good choice for windows partly for the reasons you give and whilst it is quite durable it is not particularly strong. So I would be asking why it has to be Cedar.

just replacing what is on the building. It's about 100 years old and there is additional 1" capping over so the cedar never sees the light of day.

 

[Jonn Scott]

For large frames do you have access to a spindle? There is generally quite a lot of moulding (not just rebates) before you start the joinery.
Cedar will be OK if painted. It's used traditionally on greenhouses of course, but windows have a lot of movement (opening and closing) and a lot of joints for water ingress.

Zero glue? Seriously? Are the 3ft by 6ft panels single panes?

These windows were the fore runner of Velux. but much lighter 4 panes, each weigh 6kg and the window are inclined on a 30 degree(ish) from vertical. They were the days when children didn't have lawyers. The frames are not painted , just covered with 1" board flashing that is painted and the only thing stopping the glass from sliding out was putty & a tiny notch in the sash. Remeasuring them and draughting them up was fun, learning imperial all over again. For the spindle is a nice idea. Will see if I can upload some photos.

 

[Jonn Scott]

No comment on how to build the windows, just a mention that Red Cedar is one of those woods that can be rough in the lungs. You go from having no problem working with it to having severe reactions to it in a hurry. Wear a good respirator.
Pete

thanks for the tip

 

[Jonn Scott]

Its super soft, the morticer chisel will need to be very sharp.
I made a few cedar windows and it was a bit of a pain to be honest. Had to match the cedar cladding, struggled to get big enough stock for the cills etc.
I would certainly recommend at least some glue, its so soft the effectiveness of the wedges is probably less than normal.

Finished mine with morrells water bourne clear, they looked nice but no idea how they lasted.

Scoring any cuts and mortices with a knife before cutting really helps keep it clean.
Be very careful with it as its easy to dent.

Smells really nice though.

Ollie

thanks Ollie for the scoring tip. I resharpened the chisels to 25 degrees to make life abit easier too, then colour coded them for Cedar only. Taping the ends to prevent ends chipping (from experience as you probably know, carpentry grade Cedar is a stupid price AND took 3 months to order, so treating this like gold dust.

 

[Jonn Scott]

As descibed by others western red cedar is expensive, beautiful, soft, lightweight and dodgy to breath in. I used it to make garden furniture for a few years without any real problems. Then it put me in hospital. I was rushed in by a pal who thought i was having a heart attack. Chest pains, profuse sweating, difficulty breathing, the works. I was wired up to various gadgets and kept in for a day or two but recovered and given the all clear. Mystery to us all as I didnt make the cedar connection. Took a week out of the workshop then back to work. Same again but this time i had been talking to a supplier in Ontario who said they often get people who cant work with WRC due to severe allergy. As its rare in the UK doctors dont suspect it. It gets worse until you cant even be in the same room as red cedar without a severe reaction. I stopped using it and im fine now. And of course most people will be OK but be aware and wear a P3 dust mask.

thanks Muskoka man. I've a beard so the normal face mask doesn't cut it so I use a full face mask, plus no itchy eyes. We have a native wood in this country that will destroy the lungs too if you inhale the dust, ... and then came along COVID.