Cascamite - New User

[mbartlett99]

Thought I'd give cascamite a shot as I was running short on my usual titebond and peeps here said it had a long open time. Just finished gluing up the first part of my benchtop (probably wasn't a brilliant idea to start with that!) and had a couple of questions.

Namely - mixed up according to instructions but it was thick as hell, bit like spreading cold treacle. Is that right? Can I water it down a touch?

Custard had mentioned that he used it for veneering - I've got a load of 500mm x 650mm panels to do soon but can't imagine using this as thick as it is.

Any pointers would be massively appreciated. I'll go and chisel the excess of now.

 

[deema]

Cascamite is best mixed by weight rather than by volume. A very cheap set of scales off an auction site is never a bad investment.

I add water to the powder, it should not go lumpy before it becomes a smooth paste. Keep mixing and the paste becomes thinner, but never watery. If it goes lumpy the cascamite is too old / absorbed water and needs ditching. In warm weather it starts to stiffen up fairly quickly. Never water down, it losses it’s strength.

I’d wait until it becomes clear, glass hard before trying to remove the excess. It then ‘chips off’ very easily with a chisel and sands up nicely. If you try to do it whilst soft and not glass clear you can end up with a nasty gummy mess. It sometimes takes a couple of days to go glass hard, depending on temperature etc.

 

[mbartlett99]

Cheers Deema
Even my digital scales weren't that sensitive so was compelled to go by volume. Didn't have an issue with it being lumpy it was just very stiff - already going hard and that was an hour ago.

Remember when I used latex screed for the garage floor; mixed up as per but it went off like there was no tomorrow. Next time I knew to add more water, do it early before the sun had warmed up the concrete and all was well.

 

[Cordy]

They say it should the similar to Salad Cream or Tomato ketchup for viscosity
Sounds like yours was a tad too stiff

There will be several interpretations; I always listen to Custard

edit
I mix by volume and add a little extra water

 

[CHJ]

I mix my small quantities at a ratio of 3.5 to 1 by volume (actually use 7 to 2 levelled teaspoons) for my turning segments or constructs.

I think "Runny Honey" is the best description of what I get.

 

[thetyreman]

I find it easier to just get a kitchen spoon measurement say 1/4 of a teaspoon, put two of them in a plastic container then one water and mix it up, it always gives the right consistency that way, for large amounts use a larger measuring spoon or cup.

 

[custard]

For small quantities I mix by volume, 3.5:1. But the trick is to mix in two stages, add half the water to all the powder and mix until it's consistent. This is the tricky bit. At first you don't think there's enough water, but persevere and you'll get to a stiff paste. Only then add the remainder of the water and you'll then get a consistency like double cream. I find adding all the water at once inevitably produces a lumpy blend.

I'll use Cascamite for veneering or laminating at a pinch and on an isolated job. But if I've got a fair bit of work scheduled I order in Bordens UF, it's the same chemistry as Cascamite but it's mainly liquid so it mixes up a lot easier. The problem is it's only available in fairly large quantities and has a very short shelf life, so I don't keep it permanently in stock.

 

[deema]

I use Cascamite predominantly, if you mix the cascamite and it balls up / goes crumbly before turning to a paste it’s off. It will if you keep mixing after it’s crumbled often become smooth and useable but it’s lost its glue properties. Cascamite should transition straight to a paste if it doesn’t it’s off. Be aware a lot of retailers have it on their shelves for yonks. There is a manufactured date on the pot, I always buy stuff that’s within a six months of that date.

You can add a half the amount of water and then the rest, however it makes it harder to see if it crumbles in my experience.

The Data sheet actually states you should add the powder to half the water, which I’ve never done as I always add water to powder.

A couple of exerts from the data sheet of one manufacturer:
Joints should be smooth and well fitted. Apply the glue using a stiff brush to one surface only. Assemble and clamp (pin or screw) the joint whilst glue is wet.
Keep the joint under pressure until set (approx. 6 hours at 15C)
A damp cloth can be used to remove excess wet adhesive.

NOTE: - At temperatures below 1 10C (5OF), a period of up to 2 or 3 days may be required before the glue sets. During cold weather, it is therefore essential that joints under pressure be kept in a warm place.
Gel Time Guide:
20C 30C 70C 100C
1-2 Hr. 30 Min 1.5 Min 33 Sec

 

[Peter Sefton]

What brand of "Cascamite" have you used some are better than others.
I would also check the date it could be old. The data sheet I have contradicts it's self at one point it says 12 months shelf life and another 24. In my experience 24 months should be fine but if the damp has been allowed into the storage container 12 days might be all you get! So keep it dry and buy in small quantites unless you use lots.

To mix I put my powder in a non metal container add around 5/8 of the water mix to a paste and add the rest of the water and mix to a cream. If it goes gritty or like grout I would say its off. Leave for 5 minutes and get gluing up.

Cheers Peter

 

[mbartlett99]

Hmmm, I did add all the water at once looking back. It did mix up just fine into a consistent paste but also dried quite quickly and was too stiff to chance veneering a panel.

I'll give it another go. I'm going to use different approaches for the veneering; I have 25 panels to do each of 500mm x 600mm but I have a bottle of cold press glue that could do with being used (did some before) and some glue film which I'm keen to have a shot at. Where'd you get that Bordens stuff?

 

[mbartlett99]

What brand of "Cascamite" have you used some are better than others.
I would also check the date it could be old. The data sheet I have contradicts it's self at one point it says 12 months shelf life and another 24. In my experience 24 months should be fine but if the damp has been allowed into the storage container 12 days might be all you get! So keep it dry and buy in small quantites unless you use lots.

To mix I put my powder in a non metal container add around 5/8 of the water mix to a paste and add the rest of the water and mix to a cream. If it goes gritty or like grout I would say its off. Leave for 5 minutes and get gluing up.

Cheers Peter

It was fresh & unopened proper cascamite brand.

 

[MikeG.]

......... add half the water to all the powder and mix until it's consistent........

..........The Data sheet actually states you should add the powder to half the water, which I’ve never done as I always add water to powder..........

On a different level, I can't think of any powder used in construction which is mixed powder-first. With all of them, you mix water-first. My Cascamite (didn't it change its name a while back?) has gone off, so I can't experiment, but I reckon if I was using this stuff regularly I'd be at least trying to add the powder to the water to see how I got on.

 

[Mike Jordan]

I have been using Cascamite for a huge length of time, I always mix as suggested in two stages and work by eye to get a mix about the same as Yorkshire pudding batter! I don't think the final strength is affected very much by small variations in consistency. I buy 3 kilo containers from Adkwik, they don't call it Cascamite any longer but call it One Shot adhesive. It was originally called Cascamite One Shot when made by Borden Chemicals. I prefer it to any other adhesive and have never known it to fail, nor have I had any go "off"
I'm not using very much these days so may soon find out what its shelf life really is. ( the current container suggests three and a half measures to one of water by volume)
Mike.

 

[Trevanion]

I've personally never used any specific ratio, I just mix it up to the consistency I want.

Very rarely pull out the cascamite these days as more and more of the stuff I make is from Accoya and you can't use cascamite with it, it reacts with the chemicals in the timber and the bond cracks. On the more complex stuff that isn't Accoya I do use it (Need to get rid of the 25kg sack somehow) and I do still use it for filling pinholes with dust mixed into the cascamite as I've not found any fillers that are any better. But as far as everything in between, D4 Polyurethane all the way.

I found the best thing for mixing cascamite is to cut off the bottoms of plastic milk bottles and use those as a pot. Once the cascamite has dried it's just a case of squeezing the pot and the cascamite cracks and pops out of the pot, it's super satisfying.

 

[Mike Jordan]

I agree on the plastic container use, I would however like to confirm that my remark about never having seen a failure only relates to timbers for which it is suitable, it's not suitable for oily timbers like Teak and Iroko. I have never used Accoya, I'm very wary about the possible risks from inhaling the dust.

 

[scholar]

I too find I am not using Cascamite that much these days - I use Titebond III a lot as that also has a good open time, and for Accoya, I use PU.

@Trevanion - what do you use for Accoya?

Regarding Cascamite, though, it is the best for a large glue-up. I find it keeps for a good long time if you store it sealed (I have a smaller tub for ready access that I replenish from the large one then immediately resealable the large tub.

Mixing it, my technique is:
- wife’s digital scales
- three pots, two of which swill out with water this avoids losing some of your measured water being left behind - can make a difference with a small mix-up
- remember to zero the scales for each measurement.
- 2:1 Cascamite to water ratio, I usually add a couple of grammes of water
- put just over half the water in the mixing pot, then add all the powder and mix until a fairly thick consistent paste
- add the remaining water and stir until consistent - I agree with the description previously that runny honey is about right - should go on nicely with a brush.

Thereafter, there are two scenarios:
a) you run out on the last couple of tenons, so have to frantically mix up another batch before everything starts to go off;
b) you have learnt from a) above and mixed up about three times as much as you needed, so scrape it all out into the bin.

Cheers

 

[Trevanion]

@Trevanion - what do you use for Accoya?

Whatever polyurethane glue I have on hand, it's usually either Soudal, Wurth or Lumberjack. Depends if I need to bulk out an order or not or if there are offers on it. I tend to use Wurth PU in a 310ml tube when I'm doing complex Accoya stuff as it's faster to apply and it seems to go off a little slower than the bottled stuff. I've not tried any other glues with the stuff though.

 

[Mike Jordan]

Can anyone update me on this story. Yesterday I opened a1.5 K container of polymite structural. After mixing as suggested on the pack I wasn't happy with the appearance of the glue so I used the very last of my old stock of Cascamite for the job in hand. Two test pieces were made with the structural stuff. This morning the pot containing the residue of the old Cascamite had set rock hard as usual, the pot with the residue of the structural from Polymite was soft and rubbery and the test pieces failed with very little effort.
On contacting axminsters tech advice I was told it needed to be mixed very carefully but that a new water and boil proof version might be better. Can anyone help with some practical experience of the WBP type.

 

[Yojevol]

I had a recent to-do with a 'new' tub of Cascamite. I wasn't happy with the way it mixed. It didn't seem to have that 'phase change' moment. I found it difficult to spread on my wood. I think not all the water was absorbed into the powder leaving an excess of water which merely wetted the wood surface. I got on to Polyvine and described my experience. They said it had probably absorbed some moisture. They were very cooperative and supplied me with a new 1.5kg tub free of charge even though I hadn't purchased it from them directly.
The original tub had signs of tampering; it wasn't sealed, the lid being held on with tape. As it happens, it is being returned to the supplier tomorrow for a refund
Brian

 

[AJB Temple]

I have ceased using cascamite. The old formulation was foolproof and reliable. The new one fails a lot. They are in the process of destroying the brand I fear.