Careful who you let teach you (table saws again)

[JobandKnock]

That's not the free material I'm referring to. I don't think youtube is a great place to learn to work wood. I'd bet if you have H&S in the US, you could call them and be directed to materials published for the safe and productive use of power tools.

I naturally assumed as this was a thread primarily about wood machining, that we'd got back on topic. On the subject of the HSE (in the UK) they not only publish leaflets, but they also put them up on line - WIS16 is the one for table saws, but the relevant list for WW machinery is here. Some of these are burned in my brain I've had to repeat the stuff in them so often to the "sprogs"

The social media world of woodworking is personalities. It doesn't turn out capable workers as far as I can find - not that you can't become one, but you won't become one unless you get involved in something that will make you one (either self driven or something like barnsley or an apprenticeship), and then maybe you'll make a living doing something (as a maker) that isn't what you expect.

I hope you are aware how depressing that sounds. Glad I'm at the other end of my working life TBH

That's how my mother ended up on the craft circuit - it paid when she found the fine work market too competitive and hit or miss.

Surely that's how everyone ends up on the craft circuit

 

[D_W]

I hope you are aware how depressing that sounds. Glad I'm at the other end of my working life TBH

....
Surely that's how everyone ends up on the craft circuit

I guess it does sound depressing. Maybe things are different in the UK. There is at least one joiner here in my local area that does work on "regular peoples'" houses, though. It has to be kind of quick and bland based on what people will pay, but he's doing it for a living - especially when someone needs something built into a house where there's no drop in solution.

I've known a few people who set up commercial shops to make furniture and cabinets. They ended up making things like bulky tables for restaurants for a while and then closing their businesses to install cabinets instead of making them.

What's changed? I guess how much people want and how fast they can go find RTA stuff at Ikea.

...

You're probably right about the craft circuit - people either end up there because they find they can sell what they're making, or they find they can't and they find out what sells at craft markets and then do it. That's how my mother ended up there. I don't know what she'd have made if she was allowed to indulge "getting better" at fine work. The reality is in a lot of cases here, the folks who have otherworldly talent develop it very quickly. The craft circuit was very profitable and I doubt my mother ever made less than the national average wage in her spare time work. The customer level is one where people are less critical and more happy - it turned out to be better than maybe she thought it would be when giving up on finer painting and pencil drawings.

 

[Gary_S]

The reason that there is a lot of preamble in some of these videos is to get the duration to the point where an advert drops. Then they monetise the effort that they put in making the video.

You all need to get over Paul Sellers. He is happy doing what he does. That shouldn't upset you it should make you glad because it adds to the world's happiness.

Jack Hargreaves used to provide hours of anecdote while showing how to snare rabbits, tickle trout and all the rest. It is what makes the passing of knowledge on to others easy to listen to and remember.

They guy in the original video did not ask for your critique. Why bash his business?

 

[BucksDad]

I don't believe I bashed his business - I didn't attack him personally and think I was polite with it. I was only pointing out that someone with a business who was offering paid woodworking lessons (who I was considering purchasing them with) was demonstrating bad safety practices which contravene UK H&S regulations and highlighting this to others.

 

[artie]

The reason that there is a lot of preamble in some of these videos is to get the duration to the point where an advert drops. Then they monetise the effort that they put in making the video.

Maybe.
But how much do they monetise when the goldfish move on.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

They guy in the original video did not ask for your critique. Why bash his business?

I agree. He didn't specifically ask any one person to critique his video in which he demonstrates his woodworking techniques. On the other hand, he did put it out there, presumably in the hope that people would watch and be inspired to copy his methods, or at least learn something. In a sense, it's very similar to releasing a book, film, record album, having an art exhibition or opening a stage play and so on, all of which attract comment and criticism.

Therefore, if what he demonstrates is good, as judged by those that have some sort of standing in the field, that's positive. If he demonstrates dangerous, poor or less than optimally safe techniques (he does) and receives unfavourable criticism and reviews for his efforts, I'd say that's fair. Slainte.

 

[LJM]

The reason that there is a lot of preamble in some of these videos is to get the duration to the point where an advert drops. Then they monetise the effort that they put in making the video.

You all need to get over Paul Sellers. He is happy doing what he does. That shouldn't upset you it should make you glad because it adds to the world's happiness.

Jack Hargreaves used to provide hours of anecdote while showing how to snare rabbits, tickle trout and all the rest. It is what makes the passing of knowledge on to others easy to listen to and remember.

They guy in the original video did not ask for your critique. Why bash his business?

I agree! Paul Sellers is happy doing what he does, and why should that not be what wood working be about, for some people?

Fundamentally, he has sound knowledge to share. As for the waffle, try going on a taught course in any subject; by the time you get through the “housekeeping”, waiting for a straggler, coffee breaks etc, you’ll be in despair.

And as pointed out, there’s often a need for people to monetise somehow! If you don’t like someone’s style, to a point where it detracts from what you gain from their content, move on. But beware the constant regurgitation of questionable knowledge and techniques, by utube-taught “makers”, “homesteaders”, “crafters” etc

 

[LJM]

I agree. He didn't specifically ask any one person to critique his video in which he demonstrates his woodworking techniques. On the other hand, he did put it out there, presumably in the hope that people would watch and be inspired to copy his methods, or at least learn something. In a sense, it's very similar to releasing a book, film, record album, having an art exhibition or opening a stage play and so on, all of which attract comment and criticism.

Therefore, if what he demonstrates is good, as judged by those that have some sort of standing in the field, that's positive. If he demonstrates dangerous, poor or less than optimally safe techniques (he does) and receives unfavourable criticism and reviews for his efforts, I'd say that's fair. Slainte.

Exactly. He’s a professional furniture maker, so comment or criticism is entirely legitimate.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

You all need to get over Paul Sellers. He is happy doing what he does. That shouldn't upset you it should make you glad because it adds to the world's happiness.

That's something of a mischaracterisation. I'm not upset by him, I don't for a moment begrudge him his happiness or success, and he's a better and more productive woodworker than I am. I just don't like the content he produces.

I think this thread was the first time I've made any such criticism and I don't plan on repeating myself.

 

[Adam W.]

That's a fair comment.

 

[JDW]

There was a guy who worked at my school who had been in the army. One day he jumped down from a tank but his wedding ring and ring finger decided they liked the view up there and stayed put. I have no idea but I guess soldiers are told they can wear a wedding ring but are advised not to?

 

[Gary_S]

I agree. He didn't specifically ask any one person to critique his video in which he demonstrates his woodworking techniques. On the other hand, he did put it out there, presumably in the hope that people would watch and be inspired to copy his methods, or at least learn something. In a sense, it's very similar to releasing a book, film, record album, having an art exhibition or opening a stage play and so on, all of which attract comment and criticism.

Therefore, if what he demonstrates is good, as judged by those that have some sort of standing in the field, that's positive. If he demonstrates dangerous, poor or less than optimally safe techniques (he does) and receives unfavourable criticism and reviews for his efforts, I'd say that's fair. Slainte.

How many on here have demonstrated that standing?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Exactly. He’s a professional furniture maker, so comment or criticism is entirely legitimate.

I would expand on that - He’s a professional furniture maker who professes to instruct others and presumes therefore that people will copy him, so comment or criticism is entirely legitimate. What people do do in their own 'shops is up to them.

 

[oconaj]

Sounds a lot like the guys we get coming to us these days. "Do you know how to use xxxxx?", "Yes" - then half an hour later you find them doing something stupid like pulling a router towards themselves (i.e. climb cutting). Some days....

Pulling a router toward you is not wrong if it is an internal cut.

 

[JobandKnock]

Pulling a router toward you is not wrong if it is an internal cut.

I was taught that you should almost always push the router away from you - pull it towards you and have a slip and you risk getting a chest or groin full of spinning cutter, which really makes it a questionable approach. Even internal cuts are safest done pushing the router in front of and away from you. I think you may possibly be confusing the internal cuts anti-clockwise/external cuts clockwise "rule".

As it happens the guy I was thinking about when I wrote that was working the edges of a stack of boards to put a deep chamfer on them that the workshop had missed off, the way he held the router the material was to the left side of the router cutter, therefore pulling the tool towards him meant he was performing a climb cut. Had it gone wrong, had the router climbed out of the cut, had he overbalanced (a restaurant fit-out is a lot less tidy environment than most people are used to working in) he'd have possibly put a not so neat set of perforations up his front.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

How many on here have demonstrated that standing?

I can't give you a number. But I can tell within very few posts if a new contributor here generally knows what they're talking about with something useful or helpful to pass on somewhere within this broad subject field to those who are seemingly (to me anyway) relatively inexperienced and want to learn.

As to where I think I might have developed enough standing, if that's the right term, to be able to make such a statement as that above, I'd put that down to massive and unwarranted self belief, ha, ha. Slainte.

 

[jcassidy]

I think Paul Sellers is great, mostly. His book sits on the 'display' shelf in the living room (along with 'Art and Architecture of Ireland Vol 1', 'Mestieri, arti e gente del mio paese', and the 'Anthology of American Folk Music').

Regardless of what one thinks of him, he doesn't demonstrate unsafe working practises, unless the requirements of filming dictate it, and when that happens he always points it out. e.g. using a chisel in an unsafe manner or whatever.

I think a lot of noses are put out of joint by some of this my-way-or-the-highway statements, some of which I agree with and some I don't. But you get those from experts in any field.

I loved the firewood video, showed it to the missus and she found it funny too. $1,200 for a log sounds about right....

 

[BucksDad]

Part two now out for anyone interested

Ash standing lamp build part Two. - YouTube

 

[JobandKnock]

And the saga continues....

Nice safe bandsaw usage (not!) and then back to the exposed blade on the circular saw (and as a lowly carpenter why is it that people insist on using sleds when a miter saw is safer?) At least he isn't climb cutting with the router. I often wondered why you needed a chisel plane when a bullnose plane or a chisel might do the job - I still do. Still, he has lots of nice tools. If he were a DIYer I wouldn't snipe as much, but he projects himself as a professional woodworker which sets the bar somewhat higher, I'd have thought. We have a saying for this in construction, "all the gear and no idea"

 

[Doug71]

Why use a bandsaw like that, it takes about 2 seconds to drop the guard down