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doubleseven

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Hi

New on here and as its most active woodworking forum on the UK I though it might be good idea to as kind people on here for some advice.

I'm looking to change my career from normal booring 8-5 office job to career in working with wood. I'm interested in bench joinery or cabinet making.

As i'm in my mid 30's I'm wondering what would be best way of getting into the industry. Am I too old to go down Apprenticeship route ?? Or would it be better to go down the route of doing courses, I see there are short and long courses ..... i'll take it short are a waste of time.

Thanks in advance for your input, hopefully somebody will be able to help out :)
 
Hi and welcome to the forum.

Personally if you already have a job I would stick with it as you will have a regular wage coming in. Go on as many courses as you can to gain the knowledge needed. If you plan on looking for employment to be honest I don't think your going to have any luck there if your planning on setting yourself up with a workshop this is going to take a lot of money to buy machinery needed to get up and running (hence keeping your job going) do it as a hobby to start off with make a few things and sell them you'll soon get a feel of what people want once you get established then you can think of starting a business and finish working in the office.
 
I would echo the above. Make sure that you not only enjoy woodworking, but also that you want to do it 10+ hours a day, 5+ days a week, and making whatever somebody else wants.

I enjoy it as a hobby, but part of the enjoyment is that there is no great hurry.

That said, if you take that into account, and still want to go for it, good luck. People can and do make a living from it, some just about, and some do very well.
 
Good advice so far.
I would like to think I can produce professional quality furniture from my own hobby workshop, but I have no time pressures in making things and don't have to find a market for what I make.
In terms of courses, I would suggest you give Roger Berwick (Dodge) on the forum a call and have a word. Roger does 1:1 training and so can focus on the areas you need rather than simply go over a set prospectus. I spent a very valuable week with Roger and so am recommending from 1st hand knowledge.
The other advantage for you is that Roger is a working cabinet maker (that is his main occupation with the training secondary) and so he can give you a lot of advice about the demands of being a cabinet maker for a living.
Certainly worth a call or email?
Glynne
 
are you looking to work for someone else or be self-employed?

Do have any financial/family commitments or are you able to sacrifice time/money until you can earn enough to get by?

Work always ends up being work so don't expect the grass to be greener on the other side. But if you want to this, have a passion, a skill and desire to try something new then go for it IF you can 8)
 
The best first step into woodworking as a career is to complete at least two years, ideally three, of City & Guilds joinery or furniture making. Although these courses are listed as full time they are generally two days a week, which opens them up for day release or for people earning some income on a part time basis. As long as you're hale and hearty age isn't a barrier.

There are also ever increasing numbers of workshops offering paid for tuition. Some, like Peter Sefton or Waters & Acland are as diligent and professional as you could hope for, providing a well thought through structured training programme. Others, including unfortunately some fairly big names and regular advertisers in the woodworking press, are not much better than disgraceful. Bad practises abound, including packing in too many students with too little personal tuition, a slapdash approach to safety, proprietors who spend all day surfing the web while encouraging excessively large/low skill projects that are basically designed to keep the students occupied for many hours without much direct tuition. Sadly, I could go on, I've met several ex students from some of the worst training workshops who have wasted a great deal of time and money. The saddest are those who don't even know enough to know they've been had!

In the middle are a number of training workshops that are reasonable, but have some significant negatives you'll need to think hard about. What would happen if it's a one man band and the proprietor fell sick? Do they give relevant training or are they skewed towards something like antique restoration that doesn't particularly interest you?

The other thing you need to be realistic about is just how equipped you will be after just nine or ten months training (the typical "long" course). In a decent school you'll have covered the very basics, but you'll still be desperately slow and with some huge gaps in your knowledge. The traditional seven year apprenticeships might have included a lot of time "on the broom", but you'll still need approaching 10,000 hours of experience under your belt, about five years, before you can consider yourself a craftsman able to command full wages.

Finally it's worth saying a word or two about the jobs market. There are lots of wood related careers. You can earn a decent wage as a kitchen fitter (if you don't mind dealing with the other trades and manhandling Aga cookers around), similarly you can support a family as a shop fitter (providing you're okay working away and living in digs), or you could be a wood machinist or a install yacht interiors or a million other options.

But when most people talk about a career in woodworking what they really mean is working on their own, designing and making solid wood custom furniture in a converted barn surrounded by beautiful countryside. Sadly, the designer/maker dream is just that...a dream. Unless you have a partner with a real job, or you've taken early retirement from the forces or police and have a basic living pension, then the reality of making hand made furniture for a living is that in a good year you might earn the minimum wage, and in a bad year you'll go bankrupt.
 
I hope this comes across sincerely.

Can you support yourself financially for at least 2 years without any income.

That's a question you must ask yourself and answer honestly.

And if you can, how much money will you have lost.

Apologies if that sounds harsh, but it's real. Keep the job imo and pursue your interest in the evenings/days off and see how you get on after 12 month of trying. i.e. 2 hours per evening plus 5 hours per day off x 2 = 20 hours per week.
 
Hi, if your other half has a well paid job and you have no mortgage you may be in with a chance ! I speak from experience, 26 years as a furniture maker. And for me its no to the first one and yes to the second.
 
Glynnne said
In terms of courses, I would suggest you give Roger Berwick (Dodge) on the forum a call and have a word. Roger does 1:1 training and so can focus on the areas you need rather than simply go over a set prospectus. I spent a very valuable week with Roger and so am recommending from 1st hand knowledge.
The other advantage for you is that Roger is a working cabinet maker (that is his main occupation with the training secondary) and so he can give you a lot of advice about the demands of being a cabinet maker for a living.

I am also a working cabinet maker and offer the same service as Roger.

I would agree with everything that Custard said. The reality is that it will take at least £20,000 to set up in business (machinery, workshop set up, web site etc etc) and this does not include training costs. Then there is the question of actually making money, here is an article on pricing from Furniture and Cabinetmaker, http://www.christribe.co.uk/index.php/606/, worth reading.

Sorry if this sound a bit tough.

Chris
 
It's definitely possible. Although it's not easy, but then getting a first career of to a start was pretty hard going as I seem to remember. I feel that patience and perspectivea I'd the key although this is often hampered by bills and other real life problems.

I was a computer programmer and did something radically different. I relied too much on qualifications and found that experience was by far the most important of the two. Education for me is about arresting bad habits early and getting good foundations and I feel that an impressive portfolio is worth more than qualifications. I have the latter...

I should add that I am not a pro woodworker although I get asked all the time to do things but I like my little hobby stuff. It's more interesting :)
 
has someone who had a radical change of career about 18 months ago becoming self employed has been a steep learning curve even now some weeks there has been no work at all . My only saving grace i have a wife who has supported me . I would certainly think long and hard before you make such a decision , but at the end of the day it was the right thing for me i hope this may help you , cheers ian
 
Hi Guys

Have read through all the posts and would like to thank you all for your input, lots of honesty and great advice which is just what I wanted.

My situation is that my contract is finishing end of next month so I have decided that its time for a change of lifestyle for me. As i had supported my wife for number of years through her uni she now has decently paid job which means she can support us both. As she said to me its my turn to do something with my life that will make me happy instead of being stuck in the office environment all day long.

As i had done woodworking at school and worked loads with wood when I did art I would like to return to that feeling that you get when working with wood and having that feeling at end of the day that you contributed to making something.

I have looked at different courses and it seems from City and Guilds website that first option is to go down Level 1 Diploma in Carpentry and Joinery diploma to get the basics. This takes up about 3 days a week so what I'm thinking is maybe I should contact local joinery/carpentry companies around my area where I live and see if they would take me on to get some experience (If it means me working for nothing so be it as it would be valuable experience) during those two days I don't study. Any opinions on this ?? Do you think companies would be willing to take me on ??

I'm not changing my career to earn more money than I am now, its more for my happiness as I feel wasted working in an office environment ...... I want something challenging. Also I'm not interested in being self employed at the moment, would rather work in team environment where I can make a difference and learn from others. Maybe in about 10 years time when I gain enough experience I would look into get self employment.

Thanks again for your input !
 
Ah ha! So you fall into the "partner with a proper job" category, then you're golden!

One option as you're London based (probably your best option), is the Building Craft College in Stratford in East London. The Fine Woodworking course is run by Colin Eden-Eadon. Colin is an ex Barnsley Workshop apprentice as well as being an ex editor of Furniture & Cabinetmaking, visiting lecturers on the course include people like Robert Ingham and Tom Kealley. Several Stratford students have then gone on to do a year or two at the Barnsley Workshops.

Send me a PM if you want to know more, I'm biased but this is the Oxford and Cambridge route into the highest levels of British cabinet making, and by virtue of location and circumstances you fall into that small group of fortunate people for whom it's possible.
 
Well I'd like to wish you the very best for the future it sounds like you have got it all planed and I sincerely hope it all works out for you. Good luck
 
Thank you so much guys, I will contact Building Craft College and see if I can get a place there. Will still contact some local businesses and see if I can get some work experience.
Fingers crossed it works out, I'll keep you posted what happens. Thanks again for your time, it's much appreciated!
 
it is 1 year 11 1/2 months since he last logged on, so i wouldn't hold your breath...
 

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