segovia
Established Member
I must own every cabinet scraper burnisher device ever made, plus reviewing countless videos in YouTube and I still can't get an edge on my cabinet scrapers. Any advice welcome its driving me crazy 
Cabinet Scrapers
- Thread starter segovia
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Are you talking about card scrapers? I think I followed the Paul Sellers video and it seemed to work. The problem I tend to find is that I turn the edge over too much. The scraper still works, but I need to use it at more of a shallow angle (e.g. lean it away from you more more as you scrape away from you) which makes it a little bit awkward to use.
Argus
Established Member
Well, apologies if I'm repeating what you already do, but here's my method:
1 - Flatten both long edges with a single cut file.
2 - Polish the 4 sides of both edges on a stone as you would the back of a chisel - just the last 1/8 to 1/4 inch is enough.
3 - Do the same with the card edges held dead vertical - a square wood block on the stone is a good asset here.
You should now have a set of dead flat, polished square edges.
4 - A very light wipe of thin oil on the burnisher and the card edge. (I think that the late Jim Kingshott suggetsed 'a bit of nose-grease'). Run the burnisher once or twice with even pressure the full length of the edge, set horizontally. Tilt it by a couple of degrees and repeat evenly on each side. once or twice should be enough to establish an edge. The steeper the angle and the greater pressure the more aggressive the resulting cut. You'll develop a memory of what works best with a bit of repetition.
Do this often and keep a library of scrapers - then do the lot and have a sharpening-party. The secret, I believe, is in edge-preparation each time, rather than going straight to the burnisher first off.
On the subject of burnishers, there's a lot of theology about shape and expense, but you just need a smooth rod of steel that's harder than the steel in the card and a firm approach. For example, my burnisher is an old Ahley Iles turners' gouge blank, about 1/2 inch diameter. It's done the same job for 30 - odd years. You could do something similar with the shank of and old drill-bit....... or spend all your Christmas-money on a dedicated tool.
Good luck and keep it simple!
1 - Flatten both long edges with a single cut file.
2 - Polish the 4 sides of both edges on a stone as you would the back of a chisel - just the last 1/8 to 1/4 inch is enough.
3 - Do the same with the card edges held dead vertical - a square wood block on the stone is a good asset here.
You should now have a set of dead flat, polished square edges.
4 - A very light wipe of thin oil on the burnisher and the card edge. (I think that the late Jim Kingshott suggetsed 'a bit of nose-grease'). Run the burnisher once or twice with even pressure the full length of the edge, set horizontally. Tilt it by a couple of degrees and repeat evenly on each side. once or twice should be enough to establish an edge. The steeper the angle and the greater pressure the more aggressive the resulting cut. You'll develop a memory of what works best with a bit of repetition.
Do this often and keep a library of scrapers - then do the lot and have a sharpening-party. The secret, I believe, is in edge-preparation each time, rather than going straight to the burnisher first off.
On the subject of burnishers, there's a lot of theology about shape and expense, but you just need a smooth rod of steel that's harder than the steel in the card and a firm approach. For example, my burnisher is an old Ahley Iles turners' gouge blank, about 1/2 inch diameter. It's done the same job for 30 - odd years. You could do something similar with the shank of and old drill-bit....... or spend all your Christmas-money on a dedicated tool.
Good luck and keep it simple!
segovia
Established Member
custard
Established Member
You wouldn't be alone Segovia, that's a really common error. Don't overthink scraper preparation, the best route for furniture work is "little and often", a small burr that's refreshed fairly frequently.
The other thing is that most manufacturers today seem to be trying to outdo each other in offering harder and harder card scrapers. In my opinion that's self defeating, the latest generation of harder scrapers are too difficult for most beginners or occasional users to produce a reliable and consistent burr, plus you get into an arms race in that you then need harder burnishers, and preparing the edges also becomes more demanding.
It may be different for applications like stripping off acres of yacht varnish, but for most furniture applications I'm convinced that the optimum method is the traditional route, a card scraper that's roughly as hard as say a saw plate, and preparing your scraper then becomes a regular, but very simple and straightforward, part of your workshop routine. The card scraper that I've used that most conforms to the "saw plate" ideal is the thinner Bahco scraper, which also comes with useful edge protectors.
Once you've cracked scraper preparation with something slightly softer like this you can think about trickier options. For example the Edward Barnsley Workshops advocate grinding down sections of massive, industrial, HSS hacksaw blades to produce a super hard scraper for things like glue removal. This photo shows the scrapers I use on a day to day basis, the hacksaw version is on the periphery at about 2'o'clock in this photo. It also shows a couple of scrapers that have been clipped from old saw plates that I file into special shapes as and when required.
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
Totally agreed with what's already said, thumbs up from me.
On another note, a recent video on David W's channel doing so with the buffer is quite impressive.
Tom
On another note, a recent video on David W's channel doing so with the buffer is quite impressive.
Tom
segovia
Established Member
I have some Lie Nielson scrapers and some others that are unbranded, I'll invest a few quid in the Bahco and start afresh with a new scraper. When burnishing, none of the guidance gives any indication as to the amount of pressure needed to form and curl the edge. I think I could be putting too much pressure on it.
custard
Established Member
I was taught the burnisher should apply similar pressure as when you're "buttering bread"! Now that may be a touch light, and it certainly only applies to traditional, softer card scrapers, but it's not far from the truth. The burr is quite small, but it certainly gets the job done.
Dave65
Established Member
Would this also apply to preparing the blade in a Stanley No80? I have recently bought an old one, put a primary bevel on the blade at 45 degrees and then burnished. When I tried to use it with minimal set it seemed to dig in to the timber, almost as it the burr was too much, if that makes sense.
Sheffield Tony
Ghost of the disenchanted
Has the butter come straight from the fridge or not ?
There are a few good ways to get scrapers of that ideal saw plate kind of hardness. Worn out hardpoint saws and a hacksaw. Or buy them from someone like Thomas Flynn who make mostly saws - then they are made out of saw plate.
There are a few good ways to get scrapers of that ideal saw plate kind of hardness. Worn out hardpoint saws and a hacksaw. Or buy them from someone like Thomas Flynn who make mostly saws - then they are made out of saw plate.
custard
Established Member
Probably not as I think that's harder steel, comparable to a plane iron. I occasionally use the Veritas version of the 80 and certainly that's a lot harder.
Dave65
Established Member
Ok thanks, I think I will take the burr off and start again, don't think I've quite got the hang of it yet.
fezman
Established Member
Hi Segovia,
Have you watched Matt Estlea's approach to this on Youtube? He uses the Arno burnisher and explains the process and gives a good indication of the pressure required. I've got the Veritas hard milled scrapers and use the arno, and after a few practices, get a good burr probably 80% of the time.
IMO the burnisher makes a huge difference - I've used a screwdriver and a Crown tools burnisher and got zero result. First time I used the Arno following Matt's method got brilliant burrs
video is here . BTW I used diamond plates not wetstones - worked for me.
David C
In Memorium
While researching this for an article, I noticed that new scrapers are far from flat.
This means that on initial polishing of the flat sides, you only get two polished surfaces. One on each side.
Too much force on the burnisher is hopeless. No 80 requires less force than card.
Correct angles are important, it is easy to cut an edge on some scrap to assist judgement.
Burnishers are very important, smooth carbide is excellent. Manky old screwdriver is not.
There are a surprising number of things which can go wrong!
My five topics DVD goes into much detail.
Best wishes,
David Charlesworth
This means that on initial polishing of the flat sides, you only get two polished surfaces. One on each side.
Too much force on the burnisher is hopeless. No 80 requires less force than card.
Correct angles are important, it is easy to cut an edge on some scrap to assist judgement.
Burnishers are very important, smooth carbide is excellent. Manky old screwdriver is not.
There are a surprising number of things which can go wrong!
My five topics DVD goes into much detail.
Best wishes,
David Charlesworth
Tris
What am I doing here?
As an aside, I would like to ask those here who know, does it matter if the scraper is pushed or pulled across the work? And if so what difference would there be in the results?
doctor Bob
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It's definately an art.
I find you can feel the edge with the way the burnisher runs over it.
I used to get an edge on a scraper 3 times a day for 4 years when i worked solely on oak furniture, it gets easy.
I find you can feel the edge with the way the burnisher runs over it.
I used to get an edge on a scraper 3 times a day for 4 years when i worked solely on oak furniture, it gets easy.
johnnyb
Established Member
I think its very important to know what a sharp scraper feels like. ie it produces shavings not dust. the veritas variable burnisher is a good tool to get repeatable burrs. also its possible to bend the burr back then have another go...try it. I'm of the pini
johnnyb
Established Member
I'm of the opinion the harder scrapers are good and many of the saw plate scrapers are to soft or not the right steel for scrapers in the same way many saws from the 80s and 90s were made with very shonky steel.(not true for older saws)
