Buying my first plane.

[Jimmy69]

Morning all.
I need advice on the best all round plane to get for general furniture and box making duties. My only experience of planes is a Black and Decker electric, an Inca jointer which is not running yet and a thing from Wickes that acts more like a plough. I'm tempted by lots of shiny refurbs on fleabay but am worried that they might be show ponies. What sort of price should i be looking to pay for an un-restored 5 1/2? Or should I go to a dealer instead?

 

[Austin Branson]

Hello Jimmy, I’m no expert, but I would have thought forty or fifty pounds would get you a half decent 5 1/2. You can be absolutely certain that the iron will need sharpening, and if you have never done it before, you will be on a fairly steep learning curve. You will find plenty of opinions on this subject on this forum.
Happy planing!

 

[Cabinetman]

I use a number four all the time for furniture making, I think a 5 1/2 will be too big. Record with the Bailey casting either secondhand or new, then a little bit of work fettling up the sole – it doesn’t take long. Ian

 

[JobandKnock]

I think you'd possibly be better off going for a #4 or a #5 to start with. The 1/2 sizes (i.e. #4-1/2 and #5-1/2) are good for bench joinery and larger stuff, but may be a bit tiring and awkward for a beginner. I think that they are also a tad large for smaller pieces.

 

[CatIII]

Jimmy. I've been searching for a plane (or 2) but didn't want to pay the earth for something I wasn't going to use that much. I shortlisted a number 4 'smoothing plane' from toolstation for 13 quid. Cheap so don't expect a Stanley quality and you'll have to sharpen the blade before use but it has got wooden handles which a number of planes Ive seen don't. Ive also just bought a new Spear + Jackson Number 5 off scarebay for 25quid. I've bought a new blade for the number 4 and sharpened both. I did have to look at youtube 'paul sellers sharpening' to get an idea on how to sharpen the blades mind. Ive put them both to use and found them both acceptable.

 

[Ttrees]

Go looking for a nice old one, something like an old no.5 1/2
which has thick casting on the sole (wear area) which can be viewed front head on and back,

so not lapped by an oaf, hopefully still with a nice old patina to reassure one hasn't done so.
I'd say this picture above is head on enough to see that the soles aren't thin, but I'd want a picture of the back for good measure, unless it was nice looking and going very cheap.
No cracks (check the cheeks for hairline) or chips from the mouth.
No mad pitting of the sole or iron but a bit or rust is fine,
Some life left in the iron, laminated or the more run of the mill 01 steel,
I don't have much of a preference personally,
and perfect or rosewood handles is slightly secondary for me also, as those are little things in my view.

Spend a few days looking for a nice Bailey and Record no.5 1/2 plane,
might find some not quite listed correctly like Stanley plane, etc
You will invariably find a no.4 for very little money, I think I got one for a tenner not so long ago, double that would get a real nice one,

The ones with the sharp corners on the irons (laminated irons)
are amongst the oldest, and have solid frogs which are more desirable. Talking about the fours anyway, have generally fairly stout castings from the little I've seen...
I've never had to look long for a no.4

These little things are similar to something which might be called that hefty Lie Nielsen experience.
As many starters might like the feel of a heavier plane.

No point just having one plane, you need course medium and fine.
Not that I'm much of a Schwarz fan, but it's a catchy name, and I agree with the principal, but not his planing methodology.

David Charlesworth for hands down the best planing technique and tutorial skills, and then David Weaver if getting tearout.
Good luck



Tom

 

[fezman]

Where are you based Jimmy? Near an Axminster store? If i were you, I would go to the nearest one and try out all the demo planes they have and decide which one suits you best for the work you plan to do.

Then if you want a new one, get one from them or elsewhere, but if you fancy an old one, you will have a better idea of model. You could then try Vintage Old Tools - Antique & Used Second Hand Tools UK for refurbished tools , or the Vintage Tool Shop, Stalbridge - Fine Hand Tools Bought & Sold for a mix of refurbed and "projects" - they will also give you a good idea on prices. Then there is ebay. Or I'm sure a few members on here have too many tools and may offer to sell you one.

Personally I started with the Ubiquitous Stanley no4 (ebay gamble - turned out well) bought a few more - always felt something was missing. Went to a show and saw @Peter Sefton Demonstrating the woodriver 5 1/2 - bought one immediately and that is my go to plane. Bought a 4 1/2 from him at the last Harrogate show - and I use these all the time - now use my old 4 and 5 and LAJP much less - personally I like the extra weight the 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 provide.

 

[Jameshow]

You could get a faithfull no 4 or 5 plane If you like hand planing get a better record or Stanley and convert the faithful to a scrub plane.

Cheers James

 

[Fitzroy]

First plane was a Stanley no 4 off gumtree for £10. Was in poor shape but with so little invested I was no worried about breaking it. Learnt lots getting it to work. Still my go to plane when I want to get a perfect surface, easy to sharpen and get dialled in.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

From experience I can tell you NOT to buy a Hilka. At least, not one from the 1970s; perhaps they got better later?

 

[JobandKnock]

Nope

TBH you are better off looking for a second hand Record or a Stanley - one of the models with a cam- clamp (not one of those horrible screw clamped monstrosities) chromed lever cap and dark wood (generally stained beech) handles. Avoid Stanley Handyman and Acorn planes as well. In the mid to late 1970s Stanley did use a brown, grained plastic for handles and knobs for a while, but those are pretty awful, although not as bad as the gawd awful black plastic jobbies on modern Record-Marples plane. Oddly those Stanleys weren't such bad planes, other than those handles...

Avoid anything with rust, other than a small amount of superficial surface rust. Avoid planes with seized mechanisms or verybshort blades. Avoid anything with broken castings or cracks or a chipped mouth. Avoid anything with a broken handle - that can indicate abuse and there might be hidden damage

The rosewood handles are nice to look at, but a plane with them will cost a lot more.

The idea is to buy something which won't cost the earth and which won't require a month to put right.

Following the above I can generally pick up a useable tool from my local flea market most weeks. #4s are the most common, followed by #5s?possibly because they were also bought by home owners as well as other trades than joiners, e.g. electricians, locksmiths, glaziers and plumbers, etc. #4-1/2s are quite a lot less common and #5-1/2s even less common, possibly because they both tended to be more of a joiner's tool. Prices tend to reflect this

 

[Jimmy69]

Many thanks for all of the advice. I have a stanley bailey no 4 in pieces and missing a yoke so I've ordered a spare. It has a repaired crack but it should be useable. I certainly wouldn't have bought it in that state but it will be interesting to see how useful it is.
I like the idea of going to Axminster to try out all of the different planes but fear I'll leave the store with a Lie Nielsen and not have a clue how to use it
So then, I shall look for a slightly rusted 5 1/2 as I think heavy might be better for me. I see a few Marples/Woden/Millers falls on the bay. Worth a punt or not?

 

[JobandKnock]

For a #5-1/2 a Woden might be a better bet, or a #15 Millers-Falls, whose machining standards seem to be pretty good up until the 1970s. Both marques seem to attract less attention from "restorers".

As to Marples, WWII period planes were pretty ropey with very thin castings.(WWII Records and Stanleys are generally a lot better made with thicker castings - what they lack is nickel plating). Post war I find them pretty variable, too, and those nice long handles do seem to be very fragile judging from the number I see with repaired or non-original handles. They also seem to have had inferior plating to Record, Stanley and Woden. Having owned a number of Marples planes I am left thinking that their quality was never really as good as Record in any given period, including pre-WWII. Marples planes also seem to be favourites for guys who think they are restorers (but who are really far from it), so buyer beware!

Best out of the box semi-affordable bench plane I've used was actually a Quangsheng. Not perfect, but if you are going to spend money a better bet than a rust bucket "name" plane or a "refurbished" show pony

 

[Jimmy69]

I keep hearing good things about the Quangsheng planes which I'm assuming is the same as Wood River. Maybe my second plane will be Chinese but for now, i think I'll dip my toe in for around the 50 -70 quid mark. It's good to flesh all of this out as my list for potential planes is now Record/stanley/woden/millers. Not bad for a ditherer like me

 

[Cabinetman]

I have found that it’s really deeply down to personal preference, I have two or three Stanley/Bailey number fours, I tried a wood river in the shop and it was just too small to get my hand round the handle and was quite uncomfortable. In a fit of madness I splashed out £350 from memory on a lie Nielsen and it’s sat at the end my bench gathering dust, I was so excited but it just did nothing for me at all and I found it....... – didn’t work for me, I suppose I ought to sell it really. Ian

 

[planesleuth]

Personal preference indeed. I have around 60 planes of all types. I use the Record 51/2 a lot but the two I use the most are; Lie Nielsen skew block plane and a very old Record 4 with shop made handles, widened mouth and a Hotley blade.

 

[Corset]

Planes come down a lot to what point you are using them, if you are doing a lot of wood prep then more planes are handy and bigger is also handy. If you are just fine tuning stuff after using machines then a number 4 or 3 may be ok. Everyone seems to have there own favorites and i think there are an awful lot of good second hand planes out there. A number 4 shouldnt be more than £30 and a number 5 shouldnt be more than £40 ish. I think record and standly are on average a safer bet than others as the sheer number of planes out there means you have more choice. Minor rust should never be a deterrent as it pretty typical shed storage. I would try for a wooden handled plane as they seem nicer in the hand on a cold day. If you cant see the sole in the picture i would not buy one as i have been caught outbefore with a plane. Minor pitting makes absolutely no difference to a plane and i would rather have a lightly worn well used plane than a shiny wonky one. I have seen a fair few stanleys and records that look great but after you spend several hours tweaking them to get basic functions you do wonder what happened at the factory. I like a certain level of patina from wear that tells me the planes was used and cared for, others like shiny. I am always dubious about shiny brass etc as it will go dull from use so why polish it....

 

[thetyreman]

if you want a premium plane then get one, but you should be able to find an old good condition 5 1/2 on ebay, there are plenty of them around still. I like record planes more than stanley especially the early pre war ones.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

So then, I shall look for a slightly rusted 5 1/2 as I think heavy might be better for me. I see a few Marples/Woden/Millers falls on the bay. Worth a punt or not?

There's little you can't do with a 5 1/2. Woden are good planes as are older (red) Marples (not so much Record Marples). Can't speak for MF.

 

[AESamuel]

I keep hearing good things about the Quangsheng planes which I'm assuming is the same as Wood River. Maybe my second plane will be Chinese but for now, i think I'll dip my toe in for around the 50 -70 quid mark. It's good to flesh all of this out as my list for potential planes is now Record/stanley/woden/millers. Not bad for a ditherer like me

Quangsheng, wood River, Luban etc. Are all made by the same people but to different tolerances and levels of fit and finish. In my experience the cheaper versions do require more significant fettling to be top notch, whereas the more expensive versions are 90-95% of the way there.