Business to business dealings

[toolsntat]

Just wondering if you might have an informed answer please.
Self employed sole trader with no staff and not Ltd.
Am I affected by B2B transaction standards or not?
Do I make it to the lofty status of Business?
Cheers, Andy

 

[akirk]

yes

any transaction made with the intent of being a business deal makes you a business, there is no UK legal requirement to first declare yourself as a business…

eg a tool bought for personal use, not used, but then sold = not business

the same tool bought by the same person but with the goal being to sell it = business

in both scenarios you might make a loss or profit - changes nothing…

 

[toolsntat]

yes

any transaction made with the intent of being a business deal makes you a business, there is no UK legal requirement to first declare yourself as a business…

eg a tool bought for personal use, not used, but then sold = not business

the same tool bought by the same person but with the goal being to sell it = business

in both scenarios you might make a loss or profit - changes nothing…

It was less about me buying and selling and more about buying second hand work vehicle using my work account from a Ltd company and said vehicle failing shortly after.
Is this classed as a business to business transaction?
I ask because someone mooted the idea I possibly didn't count as a business being an unlimited one man operation.
Cheers, Andy

 

[Cabinetman]

I would consider you to be running a business, you put yourself up there - out there to sell your services, definitely a business.
Ian

 

[akirk]

It was less about me buying and selling and more about buying second hand work vehicle using my work account from a Ltd company and said vehicle failing shortly after.
Is this classed as a business to business transaction?
I ask because someone mooted the idea I possibly didn't count as a business being an unlimited one man operation.
Cheers, Andy

makes sense - but you are defined as a business by whether you make transactions with a business purpose in mind...
you mention you purchased from a work account - so presumably that is an account through which you put transactions that are carried out with the aim of making money / running a business - v. a personal account where the dominant use is buying the groceries / paying the heating bill etc.
if you buy the vehicle to use for business purposes (even from a personal account) - i.e. to collect wood you plan to turn into something to then sell - then it is still likely to be a business transaction.

If you buy a vehicle from a business, but from a personal account and to take the dogs to the local wood for a run, then it is possibly not a B2B transaction, even if you own a business as well...

It sounds as though you are looking at whether you are protected under consumer legislation - and the simple answer is that it sounds as though you are not - but a vehicle should still be sold as working (unless specifically sold stating otherwise) and roadworthy - so you do still have protection if the failure is anything that was present at the point of sale / which the seller should reasonably have known about... it is just that the protection is different and might require going to court to settle - more tedious...

by the sounds of it you are definitely a business...

 

[niall Y]

One has to be wary because certain things are not covered. A friend of mine purchased a new router for his business, which , when he got it back to the workshop, didn't work. The firm he bought it from would not refund his money, and after advice from Trading Standards, had to settle for a repair.

All the vehicles I ever used for business were in fact for personal use as well. They were purchased for personal use ( not through my business) and I claimed a percentage of the running costs back on my tax return.

I assume that if I had a vehicle solely for the business, then this would be a B2B transaction., though on the plus side I would have been able to claim back the VAT.
As I understand it the goods you buy still have to meet certain criteria, But in case of a dispute it will probably be their lawyers against yours, which, if you are only a sole trader , might be a bit of a miss-match

 

[woodieallen]

Am I right in saying that your 'real' question is am I better of trying to get compensation (rightly so) from the seller if I am doing it as a private person having bought the vehicle or as a 'business' having bought the vehicle?

 

[akirk]

Am I right in saying that your 'real' question is am I better of trying to get compensation (rightly so) from the seller if I am doing it as a private person having bought the vehicle or as a 'business' having bought the vehicle?

It would be easier as a private person, but if purchased as described then it is a B2B sale which does have different rights: https://www.devonsomersettradingsta...nsumer-rights/business-to-business-contracts/ you can't change a sale to B2C to take advantage of better rights - if it went to court, the court would note that it was purchased from a business account and for business purposes - and will act accordingly...

there is still a right to have product working as expected, but with a vehicle (assuming second hand) then it is more complex, you might buy a vehicle and have it break down a month or so later and that just be bad luck...

 

[profchris]

The level of quality required is the same for both consumer and business sales. The main differences are:

• in a B2B sale some rights can be limited ir excluded if doing so is reasonable (consumer rights can't be excluded at all)
• consumers have longer to complain about defects than businesses (it's much more complicated than that, but as a simplification this is roughly right)

A proper answer requires us to be told the real question (I guess here it's can I get a refund? ) and all the relevant facts. We don't have those as toolsntat has told us both that he's not a limited company and that he paid from a company bank account, so there's more to the story.

 

[toolsntat]

I'm not going into the extraordinary ins and outs of this situation I find myself in but will say thank you for your input regarding this matter, it's been helpful.
Cheers, Andy

 

[artie]

I'm not going into the extraordinary ins and outs of this situation I find myself in but will say thank you for your input regarding this matter, it's been helpful.
Cheers, Andy

If you don't ask the right question, it's unlikely you'll get the right answer.

 

[Kendall Downes]

Even as a sole trader, you are legally considered a business entity separate from your personal identity. This means that you can engage in business transactions, including B2B transactions.