Building grade timber quality

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Yebbut you don't know if the best stuff has already been taken.
Better to buy by grade from a yard which does not allow sorting. You take it as it comes and everybody take the same chance. This particularly applies to redwood and all building timber, which is all graded. Not so easy with hardwoods.
If it looks a bit substandard when you get it you can usually complain and get a discount or other deal.
Tbh it depends a lot on where you buy from , wickes, bnq and any large diy suppliers don’t specialise in timber only - they supply everything to the masses. Smaller suppliers don’t have a massive turnover so there stocks are not replenished as quickly- a few years back I had several timber yards on my doorstep- masons of willenhall and the w-ton timber and door centre . They would both always ask what the timber is for and supply you accordingly. If say it was for the base of a deck then the quality would be a little rougher than joists for a floor. They would always take back badly twisted timber and replace it. If it was a more critical job they would pull out the best timber as they wanted you to return again. Sadly both now out of business due in part to the large diy centres that pop up all over the country-hence why if I need straight and true timber I always try to pick my own . Unfortunately the (quality) aspect of so many products these days is at the bottom of the priority of many suppliers and it’s down to cost . The majority of us probably won’t pay a premium price so we get the average quality.
 
I always try and hand pick mine, on the odd occasion I've ordered over the phone for delivery it has been a bit of a gamble - some have been like yours and I've taken them back and others have been excellent. I use Travis and midlands-based Discount Builders.
 
Tbh it depends a lot on where you buy from , wickes, bnq and any large diy suppliers don’t specialise in timber only - they supply everything to the masses. Smaller suppliers don’t have a massive turnover so there stocks are not replenished as quickly- a few years back I had several timber yards on my doorstep- masons of willenhall and the w-ton timber and door centre . They would both always ask what the timber is for and supply you accordingly. If say it was for the base of a deck then the quality would be a little rougher than joists for a floor. They would always take back badly twisted timber and replace it. If it was a more critical job they would pull out the best timber as they wanted you to return again. Sadly both now out of business due in part to the large diy centres that pop up all over the country-hence why if I need straight and true timber I always try to pick my own . Unfortunately the (quality) aspect of so many products these days is at the bottom of the priority of many suppliers and it’s down to cost . The majority of us probably won’t pay a premium price so we get the average quality.
I always used to buy from Hanrahans who then became Snows but now also gone. They were always spot on and I'd get good advice from the rep who dropped in every now and then.
Mostly buying unsorted redwood and sometimes lower grades. Minimum order £500 delivery only. Just a simple phone call every time, no scrabbling about in the yard!
 
I always used to buy from Hanrahans who then became Snows but now also gone. They were always spot on and I'd get good advice from the rep who dropped in every now and then.
Mostly buying unsorted redwood and sometimes lower grades. Minimum order £500 delivery only. Just a simple phone call every time, no scrabbling about in the yard!
Yep the good old days when quality went hand in hand with customer service.
 
It's got a lot better in the last 30 years. Sawing used to be inconsistent with 1/4 inch variation and taper common, also drying was much more hit and miss. Modern supplies are sawn much better, are regualised to consistent dimensions and computer controlled kilning gives much better results. Sometimes old timber is a good species from old growth virgin forest which is a much better starting point than the fast grown spruce and pine which is common now but the general preparation was much worse.

I’d much rather be working with the timber my 1950s council house roof and floors were constructed with
 
Lots of posts about the "good old days" and wood yards now no longer part of the landscape. I understand the sense of loss but we as customers are largely responsible for the change.

When new suppliers (DIY and Trade) emerged they no doubt offered lower prices, bigger stocks, faster delivery, better supply and distribution network. Small suppliers could not compete with their buying power and investment. We were no doubt very happy with the low prices and other benefits.

There may be other factors in play (my ill informed guesses!) - cheaper transport, fast growing vs old woodland, economics of kiln drying vs traditional seasoning, automated processing etc.

This is no different to the demise of independent butchers, bakers, greengrocers, etc mostly replaced by a few massive supermarket chains. The pandemic rapidly increased online purchasing from sellers without the overheads associated with traditional businesses - the high street is changing or dying.

I am as responsible as any for surfing to find deals - woodworking supplies, food, clothes etc. If we value the old, traditional, knowledgeable service, etc we need to pay for it.
 
Lots of complacency and people letting merchants lead them by the nose clearly. The OP paid a premium for C24 not B&Q or Wickes ***** or CLS or even C16.

Sodra is Swedish, here's the Swedish Timber Federation on C24 grading.
C24.png


https://www.swedishwood.com/wood-facts/about-wood/wood-grades
 
I guess their out is that they mechanically grade it, but I cannot see how sapwood gets past grading for any constructional grade never mind C24.

Maybe open a conversation with the horse's mouth and some photos?
Sodra.png
 
I sympathise btw having bought a fair amount (for non-trade) over the years, and getting random stuff. I've ended up just paying a bit more per foot to a particular local-to-me chain (Champion Timber) for carcassing stuff because it is so reliably good straight flat stuff (for construction timber, everything I have had bar a very few would be in your pile 1 every time, and better) and they don't quibble at all if you reject anything that's clearly crap in terms of defects, which I've only had to do for one piece (shakes). Never had a banana off them but plenty in the past.
 
Obviously the grading is done by a human so it is down to their experience and professionalism.

I have seen some wood yards do their own grading on request and presumably pick the best of the pile. But if they are running short of C24 "nobody will notice some C16".

At the mill is the operator going to examine every side of a piece of timber. They might examine one piece out of the log and say the whole log is C16 or C24. Or even say tree's from this location can produce C24 and then grade the whole delivery at C24
 
I should say I am a bit worried about the straightness and bends in the OP's original post. I was going to use 63x220x5m joists in my renovation with the bottom edge un covered.

Just looking at some span tables and it appears the CLS is stronger that C24 and I have rarely had any bad CLS. Anyway the structural engineer will guide me. I wonder how much stronger oak is compared to C24. It would look nice although be a lot more expensive. The CLS will look a bit bland though.
 
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Machine grading is done by machine. The plank is passed through rollers which apply bending force and measure deflection. It's then passed as c16 or c24 or fail. it's a purely engineering strength grade not a beauty contest.
 
Yes them good old days, Hemlock into the UK as deck cargo was all you could get and all that was used as formwork.
 
I bet the trade regulars don’t suffer this.
Oh yes we do.... delivered timber is hit and miss. I had a 6k order delivered in june, some was dead straight. Out of 28 lengths of 7x2, c24, about half were proper twisted. I had to build the first half of the flat roof with the good stuff, do all noggins etc, the build the second half bending each joist to shape and fixing off the noggins as i went.
Almost all the bits of 6x2 were reasonable and the 8x2s were largely very good.

Sometimes they strap the bent crapppy bits very tightly within the bundle and then band it together so you cant tell until you cut the bands and it all springs outwards.
As said above, its a structural grading via machine nothing to do with appearance or straightness.

Over 20 Years ago, a diy'er bought some t and g at a small sawyard here. A week later he took a couple of bits back and complained they had twisted. The sawyard owner shrugged and said ' you cant help nature '

Ultimately it all has to sell, the merchants arent going to hold on to bent twisted wood and they cant send it back to the forest🤷‍♂️
 

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