Building grade timber quality

[Torx]

Treated C24, 125 x 95 x 3600 @ £11/length. Out of 15 lengths delivered, 8 are badly twisted. 4 of the 8 are so bad I’m not sure I can use them.

Genuinely curious if this is normal, or if I’m missing a trick about how to work with this stuff. I feel sorry for the merchant in some ways as they won’t get to pick and choose what gets delivered, and I expect there to be perhaps 10% like this if I don’t pick it myself (they have to get rid of it somehow so I allow for the odd length). The trouble is I can’t pick it myself as I don’t have the means to transport it so it has to be delivered.

When does it become unreasonable? It was advertised at £19/length - I’d have preferred to have paid that and had decent stuff.

The good

The bad

The ugly (looks nowhere near as bad as it is)

 

[Bingy man]

I’ve had this issue with my local wickes store . I made my order in store and requested straight lengths of timber as it was for a lean to roof . I was told not to accept the delivery if it was not suitable. The timber in your post looks old and was probably stored outside at the mercy of the elements. Personally I’d speak to your supplier and explain the situation.

 

[Inspector]

Fussy, fussy.



The last might be the biggest problem depending on the use. Get them nailed/screwed in place quick and you likely won't have a problem unless they are window/door openings. Twist them "square" as you nail them and add blocking (noggins) and they should be okay. I've used worse.

Pete

 

[Jake]

That's a pile of *****, I'd have rejected it. No way IMV that bendy bit with sap and a knot all the way across the face can really be C24. Are there any visible stamps on it showing it to be C24?

 

[Torx]

I’ve had this issue with my local wickes store . I made my order in store and requested straight lengths of timber as it was for a lean to roof . I was told not to accept the delivery if it was not suitable. The timber in your post looks old and was probably stored outside at the mercy of the elements. Personally I’d speak to your supplier and explain the situation.

It might come to that. I try to stay on good terms with them but I don’t place large enough orders regularly enough for them to remember who I am when I call. I’m beginning to think the only solution is to walk in and place the order at the desk and leave them a crate of beer in exchange for the good stuff. I bet the trade regulars don’t suffer this.

Fussy, fussy.



The last might be the biggest problem depending on the use. Get them nailed/screwed in place quick and you likely won't have a problem unless they are window/door openings. Twist them "square" as you nail them and add blocking (noggins) and they should be okay. I've used worse.

Pete

I thought they had the good stuff in Canada? I tried twisting a length square by screwing one end down to the (substantial) floor of the shed these are for and gave up, couldn’t get the twist out.

That's a pile of dung, I'd have rejected it. No way IMV that bendy bit with sap and a knot all the way across the face can really be C24. Are there any visible stamps on it showing it to be C24?

Yes it’s marked Södra C24.

 

[rogxwhit]

I think that the nature of the trade is that you accommodate twist etc, or go to the yard and select the stock yourself.

I've ordered over the phone, and sent stuff back more than once. To swing your case, though, I think that you need to have a sense of what's reasonable, which may be hard if you're an innocent in the field.

Come on, it's structural timber, not for fine cabinet work. Perhaps you're mis-purposing it, and need to re-specify? You haven't said what it's for!

 

[Torx]

I think that the nature of the trade is that you accommodate twist etc, or go to the yard and select the stock yourself.

I've ordered over the phone, and sent stuff back more than once. To swing your case, though, I think that you need to have a sense of what's reasonable, which may be hard if you're an innocent in the field.

Come on, it's structural timber, not for fine cabinet work. Perhaps you're mis-purposing it, and need to re-specify? You haven't said what it's for!

It's for this Shed build, many many questions...

 

[Inspector]

I thought they had the good stuff in Canada? I tried twisting a length square by screwing one end down to the (substantial) floor of the shed these are for and gave up, couldn’t get the twist out.

Nope the good stuff is saved for export. What I have bought for projects at home were as bad or worse.

Pete

 

[Bingy man]

It might come to that. I try to stay on good terms with them but I don’t place large enough orders regularly enough for them to remember who I am when I call. I’m beginning to think the only solution is to walk in and place the order at the desk and leave them a crate of beer in exchange for the good stuff. I bet the trade regulars don’t suffer this.



I thought they had the good stuff in Canada? I tried twisting a length square by screwing one end down to the (substantial) floor of the shed these are for and gave up, couldn’t get the twist out.



Yes it’s marked Södra C24.

There is no substitute for picking your own timber, it’s amazing how many lengths you will reject in order to get a few straight lengths. I often think someone will end up with the split and twisted pieces. I’ve used selco builders for a few years now and they will allow me to pick my own for delivery but it usually means I have to go back in store the morning of the planned delivery. It’s all about building a good relationship with the store.

 

[Inspector]

There is no substitute for picking your own timber, it’s amazing how many lengths you will reject in order to get a few straight lengths. I often think someone will end up with the split and twisted pieces. I’ve used selco builders for a few years now and they will allow me to pick my own for delivery but it usually means I have to go back in store the morning of the planned delivery. It’s all about building a good relationship with the store.

At the local Borg places picking your own is a great way to get the nice boards but it means the first half dozen guys screw over the rest of us. When the pile gets down to the point where nobody is buying the remainder it gets cut for dunnage or is tossed. Those losses are passed on by higher prices to everyone. If the wood is bought wet and quickly nailed in place before they dry they stay more or less straight. Leave them to sit and dry and they turn into pretzels. The best wood is cut into 2x10s or 2x12s. If you want clear and straight buy them and rip to size but you pay a premium to do that.

Pete

 

[Bingy man]

At the local Borg places picking your own is a great way to get the nice boards but it means the first half dozen guys screw over the rest of us. When the pile gets down to the point where nobody is buying the remainder it gets cut for dunnage or is tossed. Those losses are passed on by higher prices to everyone. If the wood is bought wet and quickly nailed in place before they dry they stay more or less straight. Leave them to sit and dry and they turn into pretzels. The best wood is cut into 2x10s or 2x12s. If you want clear and straight buy them and rip to size but you pay a premium to do that.

Pete

Unfortunately you are correct but I guess it’s 1st come first served. And again I agree depending on the intended use if it’s secured into place you will often get away with a few twisted lengths. In the 1st lockdown the shelves were stripped bare of food and other essentials and the builders merchants were no different. even the split / twisted/ lengths were all snapped up . I guess now things have settled down and stabilised we can be a little more picky and the cost of timber nowadays supports this .

 

[Jones]

Those look fine for construction timber, infact you don't seem to have got any really bad ones. Small sections will twist and bend during kilning, on the plus side you can work the twist and bends out a bit during building.

 

[thetyreman]

you should always buy at least 20% more than you need, you'll always get the odd piece that turns into banana wood.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

For most structural work you can use the worst stuff for all the short lengths if you think ahead.

 

[isaac3d]

So, has constructional softwood timber always been this bad or has it become worse recently?

 

[Spectric]

I go to the timber yard and sort out the lengths I want, often going through a stack to get the decent straight lengths and a second pile from which I can get the noggins with minimal waste. The builders just buy a quantity and accept it even buying the yards rejects if they are cheaper because they are working to much lower standards on housing than we often do in woodworking and is why so much MDF is used because it is so easy to throw it in with nothing more than a tube of goo.

 

[D_W]

There is a specialty yard here that sells almost entirely to trade only that will deliver a stack of lumber that's as straight as legos.

Everything else off the rack is half straight and half like that and if you want all straight stuff, you need to get there when the current pick pallet is just pallet.

The contractor who refitted our back room mentioned (when I asked him about the bizarre pile of absolutely perfect lumber) that the cost is about 10% more at the specialty lumber seller, and a lot of contractors won't pay it.

 

[Jones]

So, has constructional softwood timber always been this bad or has it become worse recently?

It's got a lot better in the last 30 years. Sawing used to be inconsistent with 1/4 inch variation and taper common, also drying was much more hit and miss. Modern supplies are sawn much better, are regualised to consistent dimensions and computer controlled kilning gives much better results. Sometimes old timber is a good species from old growth virgin forest which is a much better starting point than the fast grown spruce and pine which is common now but the general preparation was much worse.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The old chippie I worked with years ago if fitting joists, studwork etc. always used undersized timber - he'd order say an 8" x 2" and ask for it to be "gauged" to 7" or 7 1/2" - the sizing was so erratic, especially if it came from different batches. It was easier and better to do that first than to have compensate for the unevenness afterwards.
(In the olden days, of course, when they had large circular saws in the yards.)

 

[Jacob]

There is no substitute for picking your own timber, it’s amazing how many lengths you will reject in order to get a few straight lengths. I often think someone will end up with the split and twisted pieces. I’ve used selco builders for a few years now and they will allow me to pick my own for delivery but it usually means I have to go back in store the morning of the planned delivery. It’s all about building a good relationship with the store.

Yebbut you don't know if the best stuff has already been taken.
Better to buy by grade from a yard which does not allow sorting. You take it as it comes and everybody take the same chance. This particularly applies to redwood and all building timber, which is all graded. Not so easy with hardwoods.
If it looks a bit substandard when you get it you can usually complain and get a discount or other deal.