Building a car standing - process?

[RobinBHM]

Such work could be considered "an engineering operation"

An 'engineering operation' occurs when altering the profile of the land or changing the character of the surface of the land -and it is not permitted development

I should explain -planning officers use the term "engineering operation" as an excuse to refuse applications. Ive seen decking projects fall foul of this obscure rule.

Im not an architect so could be wrong in this intance.

 

[MorrisWoodman12]

My experience is from a couple of years ago in East Sussex when building a two car hard standing 5m wide by 6m deep. Is situated 2.5m from the carriageway with a pathway in between. Planning was happy as long as it had a porous surface so we were thinking plastic matrix with 20mm chippings infil. Highways weren't happy as the chippings could spread across from the matrix and cause havoc on the road (smashed windscreens etc on a cul-de-sac where the '50' cars a day race along at no more than 15mph) and the 20 pedestrians a day would trip and claim damages! However Highways were not worried about the surface: non-porous concrete was perfectly OK. Talk about a lack of joined up thinking. We ended up with paving blocks that drain 'through the edges'.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I should explain -planning officers use the term "engineering operation" as an excuse to refuse applications. Ive seen decking projects fall foul of this obscure rule.

Im not an architect so could be wrong in this intance.

It's not an excuse really, so much as part of the definition of "development" - something which counts as "development" (probably) requires permission, something which doesn't consist of "development" (probably!) doesn't. If something requires permission, it will either get it or not - based on the merits of the particular case.
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/di...lopment/category/7/glossary_of_planning_terms

 

[Jonm]

A good structural engineer should be able to give you some different design options and an idea of costs - a key factor will be the ground conditions. I would consult the engineer first. Again, a good engineer should also be able to help with putting your planning app through the system. A planning consultant is probably less useful, unless you run into specific planning-related difficulties which the engineer or you can't resolve. I would not contemplate doing anything further without getting the engineer on board

I basically agree with you but an engineer is expensive. Before commissioning an Engineer I feel that the OP could do a bit more by getting “pre application planning advice” for £55. Similarly some pre-application advice from the highway authority. For a comparatively small outlay they would then know if this proposal is a complete non starter or just a case of sorting out the details.

Then, as you say, get an engineer on board and there should be no need for a planning consultant.

 

[Jonm]

The highways authority would normally be a statutory consultee in the planning process.

I agree and I did say “highway authority approval is part of the planning process”.

We are trying to advise someone without knowing the details. With regard to this lane we do not know the width, speed limit, traffic flow, visibility, presence of other accesses or junctions. There could be issues with getting Highway Authority approval so I am suggesting getting ”pre-application advice” from the highway authority at an early stage before spending money, time and effort developing options, prices and making a planning submission.

In 2011 Warwickshire CC charged £60 for this advice. Somerset CC apparently provide this service but I have not seen any prices.

 

[Jonm]

That is more good advice, Thanks. I need to start asking the authorities, and expecting to spend some drinking vouchers.
Is there a way that I can estimate overall costs (very rough estimate would be better than none). If it is going to cost more than 5k I might have to do some reflection. Below that I would likely proceed with investigation.

Also there is an option to make the bay so that the car is parked parallel to the road edge. That would mean a shorter retaining wall, height and maybe length. That may reduce costs, but obviously the space would need to be a bit longer for pulling in. I need to measure up that possibility tomorrow.

I did say I would post some retaining wall samples. There are three elements to this one. Engineer designed brick wall at the base with granular material behind and filter drain. Above that, earth sloping at two horizontal to one vertical. At top, vertical precast concrete 300mm high, this is actually fencing kicker board held in place with short concrete fence posts. Total height is about 1.5 metres.

Here us a view from the top. Fencing was required by building control, not surprisingly. Drive is permeable block paving (gaps between blocks filled with grit) and it works well. Verge is the plastic crates filled with gravel.

Here is a lower wall. 600mm high so no fence required. Gabions filled with Ironstone, hand pitched. Drive is the plastic crates filled with gravel, makes it much more stable can easily take loaded wheels bin over it. Gabions will go way over 2 metres high, they are now used a lot on new motorway works.

 

[DrPhill]

Thanks for the input folks, all very useful. Sorry for being quiet - had family visiting.

We live in a cul-de-sac, four houses, two of which are on the end lane (heading east) which is not managed by the council. The two that do have frontage onto the council-managed portion (one of them me) are on a right-angle bend in the corner. My neighbours drive goes west from the corner, and my new hard-standing would go south from the same corner. the only vehicles that use the corner currently do so to access my neighbour or to turn round. So traffic is minimal and slow where the new 'drive' would be. I cannot see any traffic or pedestrian problems:

This is looking at my neighbours drive, new car standing would be on the left, stating a metre from the boundary and coming back towards the camera. You can just see part of the rotting shed through the bushes. The horizontal is the top of the half-height wall.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

That's a pretty steep slope! Someone down the road from here did something very similar to what you're looking to do. They (presumably under the auspices of a structural engineer) built a steel deck, with block and beam infill to create the horizontal surface. They clad the steel frame with timber and had a painted steel safety railing all round. A bit industrial-looking, but safe and durable.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Looking at the picture it may be easier to construct the hardstanding parallel with the road rather than at 90 degrees. That way the width of ~2.5m would need support on the hill rather than 4.5m length of the car. The height on the hillside would be 1-1.5m rather than 2.0+

Assumes there is enough space to do this and/or part of the wall can be sacrificed..

 

[DrPhill]

That's a pretty steep slope! Someone down the road from here did something very similar to what you're looking to do. They (presumably under the auspices of a structural engineer) built a steel deck, with block and beam infill to create the horizontal surface. They clad the steel frame with timber and had a painted steel safety railing all round. A bit industrial-looking, but safe and durable.

It is steep, partially because the road was built up level at the boundary. Highways would be alarmed to see the state of that ;-)
I have a garage on a similar slope further down the track - the steel stilts mean it is about 5m off the ground at the far end. A steel frame, boxed in for storage and covered with trellis/climbers would be my ideal, but I have no way yet to gauge costs.

 

[DrPhill]

Looking at the picture it may be easier to construct the hardstanding parallel with the road rather than at 90 degrees. That way the width of ~2.5m would need support on the hill rather than 4.5m length of the car. The height on the hillside would be 1-1.5m rather than 2.0+

Assumes there is enough space to do this and/or part of the wall can be sacrificed..

That is a possibility; I was going to measure up at the weekend but we had family over and it went out of my head......

 

[DrPhill]

The hedge that will be turned into hardstanding, my neighbours drive is to the right....

Standing in my neighbour's drive looking along the hedge. What traffic there is (three households) travels along the tarmac at the bottom of the image.

Traffic travels along the tarmac at the top of the image.

 

[DrPhill]

I even balanced on the chimney to get you a birds-eye view:

 

[DrPhill]

Just measured along the fence line, and there is 7m between the neighbours gate post and the last tree/shrub that can be removed (so the pittosporum goes, but the eleagnus stays.
The Rotting Shed back wall lies about 1.75m from the boundary so the whole structure will likely be demolished and used as hard-core. We wind up with a small patio in front of the car-standing (south facing, private, sunny, hot).

It seems worth investigating......

 

[DrPhill]

OK, some more thinking going on here.

There are some other options. Part of the front of the property further east fronts onto the lane where it is not adopted by the council - it is a private (unowned) track. At this point the slope is lower so technically simpler (and cheaper) to do. Unfortunately, there are only two options here - purchase a little land from our neighbour or fell a beech. I hate the idea of felling a tree - though it is probably older than the house (and so well over 100 years) old. Beeches are thought to live 150-200 years, so it is getting on a bit. It is also under stress - it is on a hot dry south facing slope, and climate change is making things worse. It needs 'management' every 5-7 years and is a bit close to the house for comfort. It does provide a little privacy (but not much) but is a good wildlife resource.

Should I go for the tree removal (not something to do lightly), how long is needed between removal and building a car standing. the trunk is four or five foot across at ground level, so will take a while to rot down. Could I build a hard standing with loose infill that can be topped up as the roots rot and the level sinks?