Builder starting small extension, will I regret it

[Oldman]

He's finished!

Straps & hangers nailed, I got him to remove some thermolite blocks above the lintel and take out the 2 loose bricks, clear the lintel top of cement droppings and put insulation right up to the top of the void.

I just need to sort the Latex leveling out for the floor edges and find the best cable run from CU to extension, draw some cables through fit a secondary joist to support the old extension roof and thats then it for now as the bathroom has priority.

 

[trousers]

So, was it on budget?

And do you regret it?

 

[Oldman]

He did almost exactly what was on the shedule, there was to be an extra charge for altering my mains water in from old copper to new plastic pipe and a new shut off valve which I had agreed to, but one pane of glass cracked 36hrs after fitting by the builder and the suppliers sent a fitter to see if it was a manufacturing fault and suggested the builder had used too narrow packers which had slipped off one pane causing it to crack.

After negotiations they agreed to a nominal fee of £8 for a new glazing unit fitted by them.

I agreed to pay that cost and the builder forgot the pipework cost.

So there were no extras whatsoever in the end, finished on budget as they say.

The builder left me 1/4 ton of sharp and pit sand plus a couple of 90mm celotex sheets which he couldnt be bothered to remove from site

As to regretting it, in the end no as I have what I wanted but I did find the whole episode quite traumatic. Mid way through I would have gladly rewound and not had it started due to the upheaval to my home and garden, the constant clearing up every day once they had left site and the thought that it may never end up being what I wanted.

Would I use him again? I think on reflection now that he knows how picky I am his quotes in future would have a "grumpy old man" factor built in so he may be just too expensive. He informed me that he made little or no profit from my work, just enough to keep his guys in work.

I still have an extra joist to put in to support the old extension 4 x 3" over the removed window frame but I will do that myself as I figured I can manage that job. :wink:

 

[Oldman]

Just in case anyone is still following this thread...

I have now beefed up the wooden lintel spanning the opening that used to have a very large window in it.
I probably went a bit overboard, but I figured its better that than having the decoration ruined later on.
First I acrowed the old joist up a few mil just to take out any slack there may be in it.

Then a 200x 47 C24 timber joist sandwiched was against the 3x4" lintel using 4" 10's set in a hi/lo pattern.

Also made some brackets and hung those from the m12 bolts in the triple joist, these were also screwed with 4" 10's into the new joist.

The joist was also cut to rest on the concrete pad that the triple was sitting on and strapped near the cut to stop splitting.

Then just to finish off a c24 100x47 was after running down on my table saw and rebating for the brackets was screwed onto the side of the new joist, overkill I know but it hides the brackets from view :wink:

I then set to removing a radiator and another 60cm of wall from behind it, the opening just didnt look right with that bit still there. Got a slim tall rad to go in the 60cm space thats left once I drain the system down for some other work.

Need to brick up the open cavity there now and render all the cut walls ready for plastering, plus get the cables run in and I can then drop this project in favour of finishing the wrecked bathroom first.

 

[Max Power]

Will miss this thread, its been my most eagerly anticipated part of the forum for weeks. don't forget to keep us up to speed on the bathroom

 

[Oldman]

Thanks Alan, I will pop up the odd pic as an when something changes on this project if its still being viewed with interest.

Not so sure I want you all in my bathroom though :wink:

Personally I do enjoy reading others posts when they have plenty of pics as well.

 

[Oldman]

A small update :wink:

I used an electric planer on the bowed timber lintel where it dipped below my new straight C24 joist and that worked a treat, its now pretty much level looking and will take a plasterboard covering without looking like the ceiling is pregnant.

Next I needed to get the mains cabling into the new room from the Consumer Unit. I had a measure up and it worked out to a 20mtr run.
Luckily my 36ft garage where the CU is has a cable tray fitted by me already so I didnt think putting the cables through to the new room would present much of a problem, should have known....

I had to drill through from the attached garage to the dining area, I measured up carefully as I wanted to come through the wall just below the ceiling coving and run a 40x25mm mini trunking along under the coving for now with a view to siting the mini trunking under the coving at a later date.
Drilled some starter holes in the dining room and instead of finding a cavity I found red brick behind the outer blockwork, scratched my head and then remembered the original back of house (dining area is also an extension remember) was rendered with brick piers that stuck out on the corners by 4" or so. Thats what I had drilled into, so plan be move along the wall 6" and drill again, ah cavity good.
Now into the garage and drill again at my carefully calculated point, now the garage is a good 12" lower than the house so I knew I had to drill at an upwards angle of 45 deg and below the wall plate for the garage roof to get the holes to line up but the clever bloke who wired the original dining room had put his cables through and left a coil of spare in the cavity :roll: right where I wanted to drill through.
Luckily I spotted them before hitting them and again had to move my hole position, so now I am drilling at 45 deg to vertical and 45 deg to horizontal to get the holes to line up.
Whats this in the blockwork? Nails! set into a block just where I want to drill are some 2" wire nails, they must have got in there when the block was made? so now I have to drill round them so I can remove them as they would tear my cables to bits, eventually I have a reasonable sized hole and with a bit of fishing I manage to get right through.

At least I did better than the alarm company engineer who some years ago managed to drill up through from the garage, through the bedroom floorboard and the base of a fitted wardrobe, then had the cheek to wire the alarm cables through those holes, caused me no end of grief when I tried to remove the wardrobe.

As the wife hasnt an idea yet of what kitchen appliances she wants or where they will be sited, I had to guess with my circuit designs and allow for more than she will probably want, so I ended up selecting the following cables.
6mm for cooker/hob
6mm for maybe reducing to 4mm and use as a radial for under counter kit
2.5mm pair for a ring main
2.5mm for a dedicated fridge/freezer radial (non rcd)
1.5mm for all kitchen lighting inc wall cabinet/pelmet lighting if needed
1.5mm for outside lighting around the new extension

So thats 7 cables in all, I ran them all out up the garden, added a couple of mtrs for luck and cut them all 22mtr long.
Taped them all up in pairs to save getting crossovers while feeding them through walls and gathered the troops (well wife and 2 kids) I put a red marker tape on the bunch to show when enough was fed through from the dining room to garage and off we set, worked out quite well really, once the cables were through the wall to the garage I clipped them all to the cable tray with just the right amount spare by the time I got to the consumer unit.
Fed the other end through from the dining area to the new kitchen where they will remain coiled up until the wife knows what she wants where.

I did take her along to both Homebase and B&Q to see if I could inspire her into a plan but Homebase had limited display units and seemed to be getting ready to drop most in favour of I guess new ranges.
B&Q had little more available and a friend says they are reducing their kitchen ranges as well.
If anyone knows of a supplier down sarf of reasonable quality kit please let me know.

Right, I'm off to the bathroom now....

 

[RogerS]

I think that the second 6mm is overkill and you could have just used the 2.5mm ring main.

The dedicated 2.5mm to the fridge/freezer is a good idea. You say non-RCD. Is this because you already have a split load CU? Reason for asking is that I'm not too sure what the regs are re retro-fitting but your sparky will advise. Any new circuits had to be protected by RCDs' I thought but one way round this would be to fit an RCBO on the non-RCd side of your CU to feed the fridge/freezer (assuming you can buy/fit one). Again yor sparky will advise.

I have fitted several Magnet kitchens in the past and were very happy with them.

 

[Oldman]

Hi Roger, yes I know the 2nd 6mm is over the top but I had a 100mtr drum sitting here and I cant for the life of me think of anything else I am likely to want to use it for so what the hell its in there now, perhaps I can run my plasma cutter in there....

The dedicated freezer non RCD circuit in a kitchen is ok as long as the cables are surface or not less than 50mm from the surface (for nail strikes etc) so it will be in earthed conduit where needed chased to below plaster depth.
I'm not short of ways in the consumer units, either RCD or not :wink:

I was until I retired an electrical engineer in a factory, so although I'm not quite up to date with all the regs and do need to go look things up I hope to not make any bloomers along the way.
Others reading this may not be aware that the kitchen is an area where part P comes into play and electrical work in this aera should in general only be done by a sparky who is Part P registered, so he can sign off the job when complete.
I have elected to diy and get the council to check my work and issue the certificate.

I will take a look at Magnet for the kitchen units, thanks for that.

 

[RogerS]

Hi Roger, yes I know the 2nd 6mm is over the top but I had a 100mtr drum sitting here and I cant for the life of me think of anything else I am likely to want to use it for so what the hell its in there now, perhaps I can run my plasma cutter in there.... ........

Knew there must be a good reason!

Others reading this may not be aware that the kitchen is an area where part P comes into play and electrical work in this aera should in general only be done by a sparky who is Part P registered, so he can sign off the job when complete.
I have elected to diy and get the council to check my work and issue the certificate.
.......

Smart move! It's what I did. Only surprise was the lack of testing...just a visual check !

 

[Oldman]

I had a look in Magnet Roger, I was worried when I saw nothing had prices on, then they gave me a book with them in and I retired quickly. Starting at £4500 for self fit Well out of my price range.

I was thinking I could do it for around £1000.

The job has almost ground to a halt now, I am supposed to be working in the family bathroom which is toiletless since I had to remove the stack for the kitchen extension to go in.
The idea was to temp move the bath (used with a shower in) to where the basin and toilet were with the basin moved along the same wall so the rest of the bathroom was clear for tiling and fitting of a P shaped shower (we dont want a bath) then once thats side is done, tile the rest and fit new toilet and basin and dump the bath...but...

I really need to get the electrics finished in the new kitchen so they can get signed off and I can get the walls plastered/plasterboarded and to do that I need the units chosen so I know the positions for under counter sockets, wall sockets, switches etc. Then there is the hot and cold feed and waste to plan and now she has made up her mind I need to get a gas supply in for the hob :roll:
I cant believe the amount of dust thats still coming from that area into the rest of downstairs so I would like to get the ceiling fitted, plaster work done and floor tiles down before I go making even more mess upstairs.

I am going to take a look at Wickes flat pack kitchens, the Houston range has 30% off atm and I hope I can get still more off it.

http://www.wickes.co.uk/content/ebiz/wi ... ton-30.jpg

I will try to get one of their guys to do me a design layout so I have a better idea of cost.
Maybe I should then start a new thread in projects on the kitchen units so I can get some pointers as my last kitchen install was 30 odd yrs ago.

 

[StevieB]

One word for kitchens - Ikea. don't laugh, easy to fit, cheaper than B&Q (slightly) much cheaper than Homebase. You can design yourself, they always have stuff in stock (unlike B&Q, DAMHIKT) and they deliver if necessary. The only downside is their styles tend to be quite modern, but if that fits your taste then certainly worth a look.

If you go with Wickes I would be interested in the quality as they generally do heavy discounts after xmas and I need some workshop cupboards In fact if you can wait until Jan you are likely to get a kitchen considerably cheaper, particularly if SWMBO's taastes run to solid oak doors or similar :roll:

Steve.

 

[RogerS]

I had a look in Magnet Roger, I was worried when I saw nothing had prices on, then they gave me a book with them in and I retired quickly. Starting at £4500 for self fit Well out of my price range.

....

That's list and no-one pays that ! Haggling is always possible.

 

[Oldman]

Popped into homebase to get them to draw up a plan.

Chose white Como range and with middle of the range handles and worktop, no sink or appliances it came to £2600 dropping to £2400 ish tomorrow. Gulp! Seems like I am in the past price wise.

I took a look at Ikea's range and liked it but we dont have an Ikea anywhere close to us so it would be an online purchase if I were to go that route.

Off to Wicks this afternoon to see what they come up with.

 

[BradNaylor]

Popped into homebase to get them to draw up a plan.

Chose white Como range and with middle of the range handles and worktop, no sink or appliances it came to £2600 dropping to £2400 ish tomorrow. Gulp! Seems like I am in the past price wise.

That seems like a good price to me. I don't think you will save much by shopping around.

The best I could buy that lot through the trade for would be around £1250 plus VAT; so my selling price would be similar to Homebase.

Ikea might be cheaper, but I can't think that anyone else would be.

Brad

 

[Oldman]

Wickes budget range self assembly Houston range came to £1300 as in the pic, same specs as Homebase, no appliances or sink. I am hoping I can get another 15% off that price if I play my cards right.

Sorry about the quality, not enough light for a picture tonight, here is the Wickes link instead.

Seems this is a good seller, the salesman said 70% of the flat pack sold recently are these shiney white ones.

If I can go through it all again tomorrow I will cost the units from Ikea online.

 

[Oldman]

Well its been a month since I posted here, I spent a long time looking for a kitchen I could afford and nearly ended up with a B&Q one in desperation as they had a 15% weekend and that along with discounted units brought one down to my price level.
Luckily as I really didnt much like the idea of a b&q kitchen with ordered bits that never turn up, I went into Homebase with the quote and get them to match and an extra 10% off on a imo better kitchen.

So I have now ordered a shaker style light oak kitchen with quite a few alterations from the plan I posted here recently.
The worktop caused some head scratching as the wife wanted black granite gloss laminate and I had been warned off it due to it scratching easily and they show due to the gloss.
In the end we did go for it with the proviso that I changed it next year if it does look bad that quickly.
I bought some worktop savers so hopeful it will last.
Kitchen final price was £1200 which will please my bank account

Handles were joke prices at the sheds, but I found what I wanted via google for under £40 the lot.

I bought a new 90cm chimney style hood cheap from a friend who had 2 delivered for a kitchen project last year, a gas hob from B&Q on 10% weekend, the stainless 1.5 inset sink caused some grief as we didnt want a reversable one with a blanking cap in front of you. Finally found a left drainer one in my price range...well almost.
I have a double electric oven waiting to be fitted, so its nearly sorted.

I bought 27 sq mtrs of floor tiles as we want to do the new and old kitchen floor plus the hall leading into it all in the same tiles. Got those on a 10% off and sale price

The electrics are almost finished, a few more boxes to sink and some cables to run to them and I will be ready for plastering.

Yes plastering, I was going to use plasterboard dot & dab but at my work rate the olympics will be over before I get that far!
I had a couple of plasterers in to quote and best price I got was £570 for putting up ceiling boards and plastering, plus rendering all the walls and finish plastering, so he's got the job.
Plasterers down here seem to be on around £250 a day still.

On the same theme of me farming out work I got a guy to lay the bought floor tiles in the new kitchen after the plasterer has finished for £240, that includes latex leveling the floor as it need between the new floor and other 2 rooms.

So a few days of odd hrs here and there will see my electrics ready for first fix inspection, then I can get the plasterer and tiler in.

The kitchen delivery I have delayed until 2nd week in December to allow time for the plaster to dry and us to paint the new walls and ceiling.

No pics as its not really changed much apart from slowly filling with tools and junk.

 

[Dibs-h]

not really changed much apart from slowly filling with tools and junk.

Sounds like my house. :roll: Actually it is my house!

 

[Oldman]

Time for an update and maybe some advice on the plastering or state of it.
I finished the first fix electricals and got them signed off. I got quite acrried away making sure all the back boxes were cut in deep enough for plastering, I even rendered in the small gaps around the boxes to hold them good and firm so the plasterers couldnt clock them out of square when floating on the hard wall. All looked good at this stage.

Plasterer was booked once the wiring was signed off, had to wait over a week for him, or so I thought.
A couple of days before he was due I phoned to confirm hes coming. He told me he wouldnt make it and put my job back a week. I'm on a shedule here as swimbo would like it finished for Xmas...
Near the end of the next week, call plasterer again, hard to get him but eventually find his wife has gone to hospital and he now cant give a start date at all.
I had by this time a back up plan to use a local company who though charging slightly more profess to be specialists etc...
Well they came in 4 days from instruction. I guess that should have sent me warning bells, but beggars cant be choosers etc...
2 guys turned up and set to work, by lunchtime the ceiling plasterboard was up and scrimmed/plastered and the walls were getting hardwalled, another guy then arrived so now I have 3 working in an area only big enough for 2.
By the eve they had all the walls hardwalled and all bar one wall (window one) finish coated.
They left for the day. Non of the electrical boxes had been cut back so were full of setting plaster, I also noted the window sill had 15mm run out along its length. Oh dear its not looking good.
Day 2 and 1 guy arrives to finish off, he has to re bead and plaster the sill again to get it level. The plaster breakes around my electrical boxes when he tries to chip it out.
I asked him to confirm with his long leveler that the walls are flat and level/square as worktops are being fitted.
Not having had a room plastered before I was unsure what to set my expectations at and found it difficult while its all wet/drying to see how well it had been done.

I had already got a booking for the floor to be tiled just 1 day later. He turned up on time and did a good job even if it did cost a lot more than I would have liked to have paid, being tight on cash and knowing if I had more time I could have done it myself.

Beige tiles with limestone grout, nothing expensive but looks ok to me

Had to stay off the tiles for a day so still wasnt able to get the check the plaster finish till then.
Well now I have and I did somehow think I would be able once its had time to dry just give it a wipe down and paint it. No chance.
Just about every right angle requires sanding/filler to get rid of lumps depressions. The 2 walls that have units and worktops going on them are out of square and run out both vertially and horizontally, one by as much as 10mm over 2.5mtr.
I conplained to the company and they are sending their estimator back Monday to take a look but as I dont know whats normally acceptable...

At the moment my 60yr old house walls are in a better state than the new ones imo. I am not sure what can be done to put right the errors but if they do anything at all its going to put me back yet another week waiting for the walls to dry before I can paint

 

[studders]

Looks OK from what I can see and floor looks good. In my experience, unless you have true walls and get a gem to plaster them, no plastering is as good as one would like so you may well end up scribing worktops and cabinets to get an acceptable fit.