Builder starting small extension, will I regret it

[Oldman]

I have a builder starting work tomorrow on a small extension to the rear of my house, we have wanted the extension for years but with young kids we could never quite afford it.
Kids are teens now and since being made redundant a couple of yrs ago I have been semi retired.
Costs for just a bare shell single story ext with flat roof were quoted as 15-20k a couple of yrs ago but now with the lack of work prices have come right down so a 3x4mtr shell is now costed at £10500 inc moving drains and reroofing another extension beside this new one.

With the feeling that prices will only go up again should I leave it longer, I have agreed to have the job done.

If its such a good deal why do I have butterflies.

I had a patio laid a few yrs ago and had to finish the job myself and not pay the last payment.
Last yr I had new central heating complete with boiler and had water through ceilings and am still waiting for the plumber to come back and fix the system so my lounge gets warm. He got paid in full as it was summer when he finished.

So nothing to worry about really eh!

 

[johnf]

Sounds pretty cheap to me .

Material costs aren't any cheaper and labour costs haven't halved in the last two years and the profit margin was unlikely to have been 50% two years ago.

So how can the cost be half what it was two years ago.

What about VAT

anyway Oldman I hope it all works out OK good luck and I hope you have found a genuine desperate builder.

 

[Oldman]

Builders around here had so much work 2yrs ago they were like plumbers, put in a high price and if its accepted great, loads of profit. If not who cares. Some wouldnt even bother to quote for such a small job.

Now it seems reality has come to roost.

I did check with others who I know had used him before and got good reports.

prices quoted are as usual not inc the VAT.

 

[Doctor]

My extension was the worst year of my life, supposed to be a 3 month job lasted 11 months in the end and kicking the builder off site.

 

[johnf]

You should be ok if he comes recomended

 

[tekno.mage]

Personal recommendation from other people who have had similar work done is the best way of finding a reasonable builder - especially if you have the opportunity to take a look at the finished work they have previously done.

Having said that, in my own experience, building work always takes much longer than expected, is never done to the standard of finish I would like (especially painting), and builders never clear up the mess they make properly - so you can expect to have to do some final clearing up when they've left.

Good luck with your extension - maybe if they are really short of work they will finish quickly.

tekno.mage

 

[Anonymous]

It will never come in at that price. I had an extension done last year. I chose the cheapest builder but he came with recommendations. I have no complaints (in general) about the work he did. Unfortunately there were things which he produced extra invoices for which should have been included (fixed price job). In the situation you're faced with telling him to pay (which he never will do) and potentially losing him or paying up.

The only really bad part of the work was the electrician (who wasn't working on fixed price). He totally took the piss with his pricing. What he didn't realise is that he would have got a lot more work had he been a bit more reasonable.

Dave

 

[Oldman]

Hating it already, digger turned up too wide for side entrance gate so they dug up my fencing that was only put in 2yrs ago.

The existing patio slabs were supposed to be carefully removed for reuse by me elseware, carefull isnt in builders dictionary.
Dont kango anything that you can do with a mini digger, even if it takes 3 times as long. Dont get out of that seat if you can help it!

Should have gone away for a week or so to miss this bit I think.

 

[Anonymous]

Oops, sorry, forgot to mention that bit. Living with builders is about the worst part. Destruction, mess, lack of respect for your property....thank god they're gone!

Wait til you get the days/weeks where nothing gets done. No apparent reason for this...just nothing gets done.

Dave

 

[Dibs-h]

A friend has had his house effectively demolished and rebuilt (bigger). Builder came with recommendations etc. except the job never got finished and ended up wanting 20K more.

Now this chap is faced with either paying up or getting the trades in to finish off. Him and his family have already been out for a year - I don't see them moving in this year either and since his builder isn't likely to continue I have no idea what the status is with B\C, and I suspect neither does he. :shock:

Another mate has had a very large garage built and his nbr 1 requirement was the builder must be FMB. He said he wasn't concerned whether the quote was 5-15% more, but was safe in the knowledge that if the builder tried to stiff him and walked off - the FMB would finish the job.

On a small job like yours - you should be ok. Hell you could always open up a thread and post some piccies for the rest of us to comment on.

 

[Oldman]

Now you made me feel so much better!

My main problem I guess is that Im trying to do this all on a shoestring budget.
I have a bathroom above the existing kitchen that needs a total refit, we already bought a P shaped shower to go in place of the bath as none of us bath, we all use the shower over the bath. The toilet/vent stack needs moving anyway to allow the extension to go in so we are moving the toilet to a new position in the bathroom more suited to the new stack position.
The old kitchen is also in need of a complete refit, so our plan was...
Have the shell of a new extension built with a new warm roof on both that and the exisiting extension alongside it, knock through from the existing ext into the shelled one and (dont laugh) fit our old bath in there for a week or two while we rebuild the bathroom, once the bathrooms finished and back in action we can either do what we can afford as and when we can to finish the new extension like electrics, plasterboard and plumbing. Then fit it out as the new kitchen as money permits while still having the old kitchen intact.

Its being done under a building notice rather than full planning permission so I cant quite get the back of the new extension to line up with the existing as there is a 4mtr limit on the build, pity as I am going to have a step back of just 200mm or so.

 

[Dibs-h]

You mean one step forward, 2 back and then one forward? Or a similar version?

That sounds like my house, except the bath is still in the bathroom in our case and is not expected to move, until it goes away for re-enameling, but the other bathroom will be complete by then.

I don't think B\C have anything to do with stepping the new bit back from the existing - I've usually found that to be a planning thing. Wanting to make the new obvious, etc.

As for the plan of action - sounds good.

Keep us updated.

 

[head clansman]

Hi ALL

Trouble is you all go off half cocked .

first get a written quote stating all that is included in the quote in minute detail, that is a fixed price which your builder cannot waver from . do not get an estimate that is exactly what it say s an guesstimating rough idea.

Second ask if you can see some of his work with other customers and ask if he minds if you talk to them , if he says he can start Monday morning and it's Friday evening show him the door immediately , good builders are difficult to come by and you wont mind waiting for him, if he has any objections to your request for you to talk to his other customers then also reject him straight away .

Make sure what he has quoted for ,things like , IE:- has he sub contracted any of the work if so is the cost included in his quote if not ask your self do i want this builder or do i get individual quote from each tradesman to complete the job ( but that bring other problem) like lining each trade to start when you want them , so your now the project manager and not your builder .

Finally arrange completion stag payments as the work reaches each stag make sure it completed to your satisfaction and don't pay him anything till it is completed , regardless of all the sob stories he will try on you .

Good luck with your choice of builder there are what seems to be more & more bad builders nowadays than good ones but if you choose the right one it will be a joy to have him on site working for you . hc

ps. make sure the cost of skips are included in the quote as well as thes are very expensive each time it is emptied , and can add up to quite a large amount. :wink:

 

[Oldman]

Well the mini digger wasnt mini enough so they were lucky if they managed to get 1/3 of the trenching dug with it as there was nowhere to put the digger while it dug them out. Its being dug by hand now. First skip is full.
The digger broke the remaining patio flags before they figured to put scaffold boards down for it to track on so there's another job for someone once its finished.

The existing extension built around 1974 doesnt appear to have a foundation other than a 4" concrete slab which will have been the old "back yard" from when the house was built in 1964 so theres me in trouble right away. I have lived here since 1979 and its not fallen down yet but the lack of concrete under its wall and the water seeping out from there to the trench isnt making life look full of fun for the near future.

 

[Dibs-h]

Hi HC

Good advice.

Although, I think in the OP's case the builder has already started.

Dibs

 

[Oldman]

Well while I was writing they brought the mini digger back round to try and use it to finish the trenches, they only had maybe 2hrs of hand balling left, but the digger got used anyway with its tracks right up to the edge of the trench....you know what came next dont you!

I noticed a crack in the clay side of the trench and warned the operator to stop. He just managed to get the digger away from the trench in time to see the trench fill back up from the side dropping away where the digger had been.
Now there is 4hrs hand balling left and a load of shuttering to do before its ready for the concrete thats booked for tomorrow.
The BCO will need to inspect before that anyway.

Hope your all enjoying this escape from the wood? Wish I was.

 

[head clansman]

hi dibs

oop's let's hope they turn out to be good .hc


oops just read the old man's reply doesn't sound to good a start doe's it :roll:

 

[Dibs-h]

hi dibs

oop's let's hope they turn out to be good .hc


oops just read the old man's reply doesn't sound to good a start doe's it :roll:

Nah - I think you may be onto something there. Lets hope it improves.

 

[BradNaylor]

This is all very interesting and timely.

We got our planning permission through a couple of weeks ago for a single storey extension right across the back and all along the side of our house. The existing corner of the house will be removed giving us a huge new kitchen and extra living area together with a study and cloakroom. As soon as I can work out how to post a copy of my architect's PDF file of the plans on here I will start a thread about it.

We have engaged a builder and paid him a deposit. Fixed price is £28k for the construction work only; all other trades I will manage myself and I will do my own internal carpentry.

The builder comes highly recommended by the plasterer and plumber I will be using. They are both dads of classmates of young Dan's and good friends of ours who both work closely with this builder on all his jobs. I can't imagine getting better references than this - they wouldn't recommend him if he wasn't top notch. (I hope!)

Work starts in 2 weeks. I am quite relaxed about it but Mrs Naylor is starting to panic. As we are going to be without a kitchen for 2 months she wants us to move out and rent somewhere. I have told her that I will fit a temporary kitchen in the dining room but for some reason she doesn't seem to be reassured. Women!

Any other advice on how to deal with the builder on a day-to day basis will be gratefuly received.

Cheers
Brad

 

[Doctor]

Any other advice on how to deal with the builder on a day-to day basis will be gratefuly received.

Cheers
Brad

I found the best bet was to take him by surprise, a good punch in the guts when he wasn't expecting it soon brought him down, however he was a big fella and the ensuing tussle was neither pretty or rewarding.
In hindsight, I wish I had pushed him of the scoffold.
Mind you his major error was messing me around and then realising that I owed him £8000, oh how I delighted in listening to his grovelling little messages on my answer machine, made him sweat for 3 weeks, then he returned and just about finished the job.
They are a very odd breed.