Bubinga questions

[JesseM]

I'll admit this is my first experience with the stuff and so far its been nasty. I got a couple of 12" boards I'm just trying to clean up. There are a lot of cloudy looking areas where its looks like a planer got a bit of tear out. As I am planing I am having a difficult time getting rid of these pippers. I used the jointer first to true it up which knocked out a lot and then followed it up with a 4.5. The problem is that the plane just seems to stop cutting. Same with the jointer. If I let out any more blade it just digs in. I experimented around with the LAJ. I found I could let out more blade but I had to really close the mouth up.

I guess I know the answer to this (high angle blade or frog) but just looking for any other suggestions. Its too early to scrape. Sanding might lick it.

This particular board goes from a brownish purple to a almost dark gold color. The gold looks almost metallic the way it shimmers. I would really love to see this stuff in all its glory.

Also why I am asking does oil work for a finish with bubinga.

Thanks

 

[MikeW]

The figure--the stripes--is usually called ribbon figure. Basically they are stripes of complete grain reversal.

fwiw, this is about the hardest figure in Bubinga to plane decently, short of burl. I typically use a plane with 60 degree effective cutting angle, and often still need to scrape. The #112 type of scraper plane works nicely for this. I also had an infill for many years which would often handle this figure, and its effective cutting angle was about 47.5 degrees.

What this suggested to me was there is more to the result than mere numbers of bedding, honing angles and style of plane. So I suggest experimenting with the tools you have.

I will add that there are only a couple reasons a plane which is taking a shaving seems to stop. The usual suspect is the iron is simply getting dull. Bubinga can be rather hard on irons, especially low angle planes. Second, it is possible to create undulation early on which a longer plane's sole will then bridge and it appear it is not cutting.

***edit***
I forgot to add that I typically use very light applications of Teak or Rosewood oil, rubbed out as soon as an area is covered. For a day or two I rub it out if oil seems to be seeping and then follow with shellac or simply wax. Depending on the piece, garnet shellac is very nice. For surfaces which may see abuse, I may pad lacquer and after it dries, rub it out.

Take care, Mike
a confessed Bubinga lover...

 

[JesseM]

The figure--the stripes--is usually called ribbon figure. Basically they are stripes of complete grain reversal.

Thanks for the response Mike. I was wondering about that. Thats what it looked like but I wasn't sure.

What this suggested to me was there is more to the result than mere numbers of bedding, honing angles and style of plane. So I suggest experimenting with the tools you have.

I have a Primus jack and smoother which are bedded at 50. I'll have a go with them and maybe put a back bevel on them to see if that helps.

I will add that there are only a couple reasons a plane which is taking a shaving seems to stop. The usual suspect is the iron is simply getting dull. Bubinga can be rather hard on irons, especially low angle planes. Second, it is possible to create undulation early on which a longer plane's sole will then bridge and it appear it is not cutting.

The boards seems very flat and when measured are the same thickness. So the second seems more likely. I've noticed to have some success if I switch to shorter length plane. But eventually it stops cutting too.

***edit***
I forgot to add that I typically use very light applications of Teak or Rosewood oil, rubbed out as soon as an area is covered. For a day or two I rub it out if oil seems to be seeping and then follow with shellac or simply wax. Depending on the piece, garnet shellac is very nice. For surfaces which may see abuse, I may pad lacquer and after it dries, rub it out.

Take care, Mike
a confessed Bubinga lover...

Is Bubinga a naturally oily wood? Do Rosewood oil and Teak oil harden eventually?

 

[MikeW]

A couple of still sleepy thoughts.

If switching to a shorter plane help, it still can be either dullness--switching planes may be introducing a sharper blade--or the length due to it being shorter is fitting a bit better between the undulations. Things are often never as neat as either/or, however. Most likely it is both to one degree or another.

And Bubinga varies as to hardness. I have had some Bubinga which on small case tops required honing twice for final smoothing. This was a top about 18" x 26". Like all things, really. If performance begins to degrade beyond what I need while planing, I hone.

All oils dry, it's a matter of time. When I use an oil to enhance figure, it is simply a choice to use Teak or Rosewood because these dry faster. Penofin is the brand of Rosewood oil I use. Hold onto your chair when you look at the price. Behlen's is the Teak oil. I choose to use one or the other based on the degree of UV protection I desire. Penofin has great UV protection. Both oils dry "harder" and faster than BLO, etc.

Bubinga is what I would call about the driest of the oily woods. Not really "dry" but the oils which can cause burning by not quite sharp power tools or too much pressure with duller sandpaper are there.

Take care, Mike

 

[Shivers]

For machining this you want to set the planer up as if doing curly maple,

That being to turn the planer blades around in the block & stone on a second bevel ---this makes the blades work in a scraping action,
I used to have a spare set of blades just for this purpose. a bit of a pain to go through this i know --but the amount of time spent in sanding will be considerable,

If you cant do this --then leave over thickness after planing & see if you can find a local friendly company that will allow you to run the boards thru a sanding machine.


regards shivers.

 

[JesseM]

I tried a few different planes today. The primus smoother is bedded at 50 degrees but the mouth is so large and the lateral adjustment is very quirky that I wasn't able to do anything good with it. Resharpening my LAJ helped out some. The best result came from an old Stanley #4 with a thin blade and a 15 degree back bevel on it. Mike, I think you were right about the the frequent sharpening. It seemed to help the most.

I think I may invest in one of those LV LA smoothers with the high angle blades for the future. I don't really like those thin blades in the old stanley's and bevel up makes frequent sharpening more tolerable. I guess I've been spoiled. :lol:

 

[Frank D.]

I love bubinga too. When I get some difficult stuff I always break out the 112 scraper plane. It cuts very nicely on Bubinga and leaves a glass smooth finish that I can't get even with my bevel-up planes and a 60 degree pitch. My cabinet scraper works well too but it's harder to keep edges flat sometimes.

 

[David C]

Jessem,

The back bevel is very effective at cutting down or preventing tearout altogether in a conventional plane. The same effective pitch can also be got with a low angle plane.

I think you will need to go to 60 or 70 degrees. Thick hard A2 blades will double or treble your planing time between re sharpenings. Even then resharpening will be needed often, the more obtuse blade edge seems to blunt faster and Bubinga is very demanding.

The machine planer back bevel is the best trick ever invented. Unfortunately virtually impossible on some modern quick change cutter blocks.

David Charlesworth

 

[labuzz]

I am trying to plane some rosewood at the moment. I have try with my low angle jack with a bevel of 55. I can get some shavings but its really really hard to push the plane. Impossible to control the plane this way, often you loose the contact with the surface and you end up in the wall :shock: . after that I have try with my block plane ( 43 44 ). It was easier to catch some parts.The narrower blade helps too I think. But it was hard to stay in contact with the board too, the plane was jumping. Then I have try to raise the grain ( with a clean damped cloth. And let it dry) and it was a lot easier to catch the fibers ( it was then possible to use a shorter blade projection and get some shavings instead of dust ). In the end I end up using both planes.
Hope this helps, I am a newbie though.
A Scraper plane will be my next plane I think :roll: Hello Franck Its you from La mortaise?

 

[JesseM]

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will look at getting a scraper plane as well in the future.

 

[Frank D.]

Hi labuzz,
Yup, that would be me .
Welcome to this forum; I like it very much here.

 

[David C]

Labuzz,

It sounds to me as though your shavings are too thick or the blade is not sharp enough.

A slightly curved blade helps a lot as the shaving is not so wide and takes less strength to push.

The shavings for this work need to be very fine, not more than 0.002" or 0.05mm. 0.001" would be easier.

David

 

[labuzz]

Arf I havn't check the thickness off my shavings. But I think it was good. The blade is sharp. There's a 45 primary bevel, then a 54 one and finally the microbevel at 55 on the 6000 polishing stone. I havnt try beyond 54, its the max "allowed" by my veritas honing guide...I am lazy I know.Also I check the flatness of my water stone more often and during the sharpening process now ( tks for the info in your third book on this topic David...I still need to get your DVD on sharpening).
I think The main reasons for those problems are the width and shape of the blade. I will try to hone a curved blade ASAP ( I must get a camber roller for my mkII ). Actually I think that veritas blades are slightly curved when you get it...Not sure yet, I have already sharpened mine several times on my unflat stone....Certainly the shape of my blade isnt otpimal at the moment.

Cheers.

 

[MikeW]

...It sounds to me as though your shavings are too thick or the blade is not sharp enough.

A slightly curved blade helps a lot as the shaving is not so wide and takes less strength to push.

The shavings for this work need to be very fine, not more than 0.002" or 0.05mm. 0.001" would be easier easier.

David

Funny. There's a thread on Woodnet about Bubinga currently. I pointed them here for this discussion as well.

For that thread, I went out to the shop tonight and grabbed a curly Bubinga blank.

The plane is a Fulton #3. Blade is pretty dull--way duller than I would typically use. It is a thicker aftermarket A2 blade.

The shaving turned out to be 3 thou thick. Much thicker than I would shoot for. But this little plane with the slop from the aftermarket blade/cap iron doesn't allow much finesse.

Now, I would normally never had used this plane for this. There is a bit more camber on the blade than I would normally have on a plane like this. and, I would normally have sharpened the blade.

The first picture also illustrates something not always ideal on Bubinga, especially curly and other figure. But it is here. That is the grain runout on the face of the board is pretty even in the direction of planing. Often the grain undulates more than here and makes for a tough go.

As in the thread on WN, sharp is always better. A thinner shaving like Mr. C says is always better. Camber does help a bunch. Follow with a scraper and one is home free.

Take care, Mike

 

[David C]

Mike,

I have a weird theory that a slightly blunt blade functions as if it has a steeper effective pitch?

David

PS is it time for a photo yet......... anticipation is killing me.......

 

[MikeW]

Hi DC--yeah, a quick thought about the subject would be that the effective cutting angle would be affected by the upper wear bevel. Hmm. Gotta think about that. The pita is that with the lower wear bevel, more force is required to maintain firm contact. But you may well be correct.

I do have a picture or two...my computer isn't reading the memory card of the camera at the moment for some reason. My laptop has been giving me fits for a while. Seems it didn't like the coffee I spilled on it a while back. But what really affected it was when I dropped it when I took a spill down the stairs. Alf's going to love that. She considers me the most accident prone woodworker she knows. Now we're going to have to add senile cripple as well <g>.

But all you're going to see is a teaser photo :lol:

Take care, Mike

 

[Alf]

Beautiful piece of Bubinga there, Mike. Got me drooling again and it's not even a saw... ](*,)

But what really affected it was when I dropped it when I took a spill down the stairs.

Oh good grief. :roll: D'you know I actually feel a little guilty about equipping you with further sharp implements to hurt yourself on? It's like handing a four-year-old a loaded shotgun... :wink: Just hope the laptop took the brunt and not you. [-o<

Cheers, Alf