BS350S advice and guidance

[ASP]

Hi All,

New member hoping to get some guidance on a newly purchased BS350S.

It arrived a week ago and I have spent the last week (on and off) setting it up.

I have been struggling to get everything square and just wanted to know if 'they are all like that' or if I have a Friday afternoon machine.

I couldn't get a good straight edge with the supplied blade (10mm) and as I bought the 3 blade RP pack with the machine I fitted the 19mm blade. I was able to square the table/guide etc to the blade by adjusting the trunnion a fair bit but that left the blade resting against the right hand upper guide (that was adjusted as far back as possible). I also struggled to get enough tension on the blade. I have since read various posts suggesting the BS350S can't really cope with the 19mm blade. However it did run and cut well, but made some strange noises, I couldn't work out what was causing it so refitted the 10mm supplied blade.

The blade when fitted was resting against the insert cut out, so adjustment of the trunnion again has centred it. However the blade is close to the upper right hand guide and I can't find a way of moving/aligning the guide carrier to give some adjustment.

Things I have learnt reading this forum and which answered many of my questions;
Buy SuperTuff blades
Don't attempt to use a 19mm blade on the BS350S
They all need some fettling from the outset

If anybody is able to advise based on their experience my remaining questions are;

1, I expected to have to setup/align the machine, but is it normal to need to completely redo this each time a blade is changed ?
2, The insert in the table sits 1 or 2mm below the surface of the table so wood is catching as I try to cut it (I need to ease the leading edge up over the lip), is this normal ?
3, The general alignment seems a bit out, as mentioned above looking at the machine the blade sits to the right of the 'upright' and is on/very near the right hand upper guide. The lower guides are almost perfect with the blade resting between the guides evenly.

RP support have been great, but I am still awaiting a call back on a solution to the alignment of the blade/upper guides.

Really just wondering if I have a problem machine or if this is typical.

 

[Gordon Tarling]

Here's my thoughts - If changing blade for the same type/size, then no adjustment should be necessary, though it pays to check. If changing for a different size blade, then some adjustments will be needed.

I'm sure I saw somewhere in RP's blurb that the table insert may require packing to bring it level.

As for the upper guide being 'out', you firstly need to get the blade running correctly with guides fully retracted. You then need to get the table centred and aligned - it is able to move around quite a bit on the four bolts. Only then, begin adjusting the guides. The upper guide block can move back and forth, as designed, but I found that mine will also twist to a degree, which may account for your troubles getting those guides set.

G.

 

[ASP]

Thanks for your thoughts Gordon.

I will have a look for anything on the insert, I followed the build instructions and don't recall anything on that, will have a better look.

With the 19mm blade fitted everything (table, fence, blade) was spot on, the blade was centred in the insert. But the blade was resting against the upper right hand guide, which had been adjusted as far back as possible. I couldn't find any adjustment that allowed me to shift the upper guider carrier to the right.

 

[Gordon Tarling]

The whole upper guide carrier block slides back and forth on a rod with a flat on it - right? I think you'll find that if you slacken the clamp screw that bears on that rod, that it'll twist a little as well as sliding back and forth - at least it does on my 350.

G.

 

[Ttrees]

Record told me they use lasers for aligning the wheels, and that I shouldn't adjust the lower wheel.
Seems that some of the staff are more sensible than others though.
The lower wheel should align with the motor, as it could damage the motors bearings
if not aligned.
The guidepost ...as much as you'd like it to be spot on, might be a bit off?
How does the machine run without a blade, any vibration?

I'd do this test to see if the wheels were co-planar and also in line with the frame.
This way you can check if there's any yaw issues
Do any adjustment if necessary with a very loose belt! DAMHIK

Best to align with the heaviest blade suitable for the machine, it's what some manufacturers suggest........ just as long as the teeth don't overhang over the rim.

I'd personally level the machine in the middle of the floor first, and make up some blocks, a bit of tape on these would do the job as good as an inserted magnet.
Just to throw another line on the wheels to see if one is sitting deeper into the cabinet





A magnet sunk into the bit of timber would be very nice for this job though.
This is where I presume the lasers could be used also




Once the wheels are in line and co-planar then you can check for yaw






You need to keep tracking and realigning everything if you adjust the wheels
so clamping is a big waste of time for that, you will get wild errors if you are stubborn and keep the straight edge clamped, note the block wedged under the top wheel to stop it swinging about.
I suppose its likely a wee bit easier on a smaller machine to do, but thought I'd mention it none the less.




Not that much faff to make a few plumb lines with some builders twine and a few nuts spanners or what have you, (and some rubber bands)
Four blocks for leveling with a bit of masking tape, really worth it if you have a bad floor!
And another block for the level which you can tape onto the level/straight edge
Nothing super fancy needed

Take measurements of everything first, tracking bolt, jacking screws, belt tightness
wheel protrusion, and whatever else you can think of.

Just incase you think you have a lemon

Good luck
Tom

 

[Spectric]

I thought the 350 like the 400 had cast iron wheels as shown below.

 

[Gordon Tarling]

I thought the 350 like the 400 had cast iron wheels as shown below.


View attachment 115104

It does.

G.

 

[Spectric]

Just a different patern then, looks like the later ones are lighter.

 

[ChippyKlutz]

Speaking as a relative novice, who bought his first bandsaw a couple of years ago - also a Record 350S - my observations would be:-
- yes, a lot of fettling was required - I had to file out some of the holes on the table to clean the casting sufficient to allow me to align the blade with the mitre slot;
- use only TuffSaws blades - my Record 3-pack were hopeless and it wasn't until I fitted the TuffSaw that I got the thing to cut straight; I use a 19 mm blade without any problem;
- the blade on mine runs very close to the left side of the slot in the centre insert - in fact it has worn it away slightly. I cannot correct this but I also thought it might be intentional, in order to allow clearance when the table is tilted off horizontal. My insert lies flush with the table surface; if yours doesn't, I'd say that's a reflection of the fact that these machines are built down to a price - nothing wrong with that, you pays your money and takes your choice (as I did, though I now wish I'd spent more on a better quality machine) but I'd say such a cheap component ought to be adequate here, since it's pretty critical and a possible safety issue, that work runs smoothly past the blade;
- the right hand upper guide on mine has a margin of about 4 mm between fully backed off and touching the blade; assuming the guide carrier is not twisted (as Gordon T mentioned) if you can't get this space I'd guess the vertical guide carrier is not hanging properly or is bent - some photos might help?
- it took me a while to dial mine in. Eventually I got it to run true with all the guides backed right off and only then did I set the guides up close to the blade. Generally speaking, when doing straight cuts, if I see the upper side guides revolving much I take it as a sign that I need to slow my feed rate.

I don't know if any of this helps. Let us know how you get on?

 

[ASP]

The whole upper guide carrier block slides back and forth on a rod with a flat on it - right? I think you'll find that if you slacken the clamp screw that bears on that rod, that it'll twist a little as well as sliding back and forth - at least it does on my 350.

G.

Mine will give a small amount of lateral movement when undone, but the moment the bolt is tightened it pulls it square to the straight edge. There isn't a way to pull it slightly askew and tighten in that position.

Speaking as a relative novice, who bought his first bandsaw a couple of years ago - also a Record 350S - my observations would be:-
- yes, a lot of fettling was required - I had to file out some of the holes on the table to clean the casting sufficient to allow me to align the blade with the mitre slot;
- use only TuffSaws blades - my Record 3-pack were hopeless and it wasn't until I fitted the TuffSaw that I got the thing to cut straight; I use a 19 mm blade without any problem;
- the blade on mine runs very close to the left side of the slot in the centre insert - in fact it has worn it away slightly. I cannot correct this but I also thought it might be intentional, in order to allow clearance when the table is tilted off horizontal. My insert lies flush with the table surface; if yours doesn't, I'd say that's a reflection of the fact that these machines are built down to a price - nothing wrong with that, you pays your money and takes your choice (as I did, though I now wish I'd spent more on a better quality machine) but I'd say such a cheap component ought to be adequate here, since it's pretty critical and a possible safety issue, that work runs smoothly past the blade;
- the right hand upper guide on mine has a margin of about 4 mm between fully backed off and touching the blade; assuming the guide carrier is not twisted (as Gordon T mentioned) if you can't get this space I'd guess the vertical guide carrier is not hanging properly or is bent - some photos might help?
- it took me a while to dial mine in. Eventually I got it to run true with all the guides backed right off and only then did I set the guides up close to the blade. Generally speaking, when doing straight cuts, if I see the upper side guides revolving much I take it as a sign that I need to slow my feed rate.

I don't know if any of this helps. Let us know how you get on?

Yes a lot of that makes sense, many thanks.

Naively maybe I thought i was buying a quality machine, I obviously didn't investigate thoroughly enough.

I am happy to pay for quality, but this will not get used a huge amount so need to weigh cost v benefit etc.

Your point about the vertical carrier/rail looks like it might be correct.

I noticed this morning the maximum depth I can get is 5 inches, the upright blade cover has a screw that fouls the the angled piece of metal. I spoke to a very helpful chap at RP, he wasn't part of the technical team (their lines were busy) but he really knew his stuff. He advised undoing the retaining screws which he thought would allow clearance over the screw, I didn't think it would (it doesn't) but he is going to send a video of what it should look like.

When I mentioned in the first post that it doesn't look square, I think it is this upright - I will see what RP come back.

I am attaching a couple of pics, the first shows the metal bracket from the casing and how it is fouling the screw. The second show the upright, it isn't clear but the blade starts at the left of the vertical gap and by the bottom is inside the right side.

 

[MikeK]

I noticed this morning the maximum depth I can get is 5 inches, the upright blade cover has a screw that fouls the the angled piece of metal. I spoke to a very helpful chap at RP, he wasn't part of the technical team (their lines were busy) but he really knew his stuff. He advised undoing the retaining screws which he thought would allow clearance over the screw, I didn't think it would (it doesn't) but he is going to send a video of what it should look like.

I think the tab is bent too far towards the right in the picture you provided. I modified my BS350S and cut the tab off, but I remember it being perpendicular to the table. Its only purpose is to catch the sliding blade cover as you lower the upper blade guide. The notch on the end of the tab is supposed to clear the screw heads.

 

[Cabinetman]

I think the tab is bent too far towards the right in the picture you provided. I modified my BS350S and cut the tab off, but I remember it being perpendicular to the table. Its only purpose is to catch the sliding blade cover as you lower the upper blade guide. The notch on the end of the tab is supposed to clear the screw heads.

I agree it just looks as if that tab wants bending out a little bit to allow the screw to pass underneath through the notch.

 

[ASP]

I suspect bending it would be a challenge, cutting would be easier. This should have been tested before it left the factory.

However, I have spoken to Record Power and they are arranging collection of the saw. I feel very much like I have bought some Bandsaw components that have been thrown together (badly) and it is up to me to take it apart, reassemble and make it work. The saw was too expensive to justify that.

In addition to the functional problems there is damage to the fins on the bottom of the motor, probably caused by dropping as it was being fitted.

My view is that this machine has not been subject to even very basic QC.

As my reference point I bought a Bosch GCM12 mitre saw a year or two ago, it was absolutely spot on straight out of the box.

So the hunt starts for a bandsaw from a company who carry out some form of QC on their product before it leaves the factory, if anybody can recommend a Bandsaw that is likely to only need minor adjustment I would grateful for some pointers.

 

[Spectric]

My view is that this machine has not been subject to even very basic QC.

or has it had a rough time in transit? When my BS400 was delivered it had a broken switch and large scratch on the lower door, both components replaced by Record.

 

[Gordon Tarling]

I was about to suggest that you see about rejecting and returning the saw when I saw your post pop up. Seems to me that the example which you received has been ill treated at some stage in its travels. Good luck finding an alternative, they're in short supply at the moment!

G.

 

[Alexam]

Hi All,

New member hoping to get some guidance on a newly purchased BS350S.

It arrived a week ago and I have spent the last week (on and off) setting it up.

I have been struggling to get everything square and just wanted to know if 'they are all like that' or if I have a Friday afternoon machine.

I couldn't get a good straight edge with the supplied blade (10mm) and as I bought the 3 blade RP pack with the machine I fitted the 19mm blade. I was able to square the table/guide etc to the blade by adjusting the trunnion a fair bit but that left the blade resting against the right hand upper guide (that was adjusted as far back as possible). I also struggled to get enough tension on the blade. I have since read various posts suggesting the BS350S can't really cope with the 19mm blade. However it did run and cut well, but made some strange noises, I couldn't work out what was causing it so refitted the 10mm supplied blade.

The blade when fitted was resting against the insert cut out, so adjustment of the trunnion again has centred it. However the blade is close to the upper right hand guide and I can't find a way of moving/aligning the guide carrier to give some adjustment.

Things I have learnt reading this forum and which answered many of my questions;
Buy SuperTuff blades
Don't attempt to use a 19mm blade on the BS350S
They all need some fettling from the outset

If anybody is able to advise based on their experience my remaining questions are;

1, I expected to have to setup/align the machine, but is it normal to need to completely redo this each time a blade is changed ?
2, The insert in the table sits 1 or 2mm below the surface of the table so wood is catching as I try to cut it (I need to ease the leading edge up over the lip), is this normal ?
3, The general alignment seems a bit out, as mentioned above looking at the machine the blade sits to the right of the 'upright' and is on/very near the right hand upper guide. The lower guides are almost perfect with the blade resting between the guides evenly.

RP support have been great, but I am still awaiting a call back on a solution to the alignment of the blade/upper guides.

Really just wondering if I have a problem machine or if this is typical.

This may help
GET THE BEST TUNING FROM A BANDSAW

'Alex Snodgrass of Carter Industries has an excellent video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU on a tune up method that works well. His updated version also here -

The following video may help some owners with a Record BS400, but it is similar to most machines blade changes -

Blades can run and cut without any guides whatsoever () as long as the machine is tuned correctly. This is how the blade should be running BEFORE the guides are brought into play on your machine, so that they can 'bump back' the blade should it wander, so please dont get guides near the blade before you know it is running clear and staying in the same place.



CHECKING BLADE TENSION - Flutter test Video's -

and

Tuning a bandsaw is only that and nothing else. If you really want to get the very best use of your bandsaw on an ongoing basis, then the Steve Maskery DVD's will show you far more and they are a real investment that you should own. http://www.workshopessentials.com/shop/ '.

BUY BEST BLADES FROM ..... Tuff Saws

TUNE WITH SOUND ? How to set your bandsaw tension with a GUITAR TUNER ( UNPROVEN )

Whenever you put a blade on a bandsaw, ask yourself the following questions:-

....... are you managing to get the blade running freely and central on the top wheel ( without guides or rear bearing near the blade ) with the gullet of the teeth in the centre of the top wheel ? The exception would be with wider blades, as 1/2" and wider may not sit 'centred' on the top wheel).

That's the first priority before closing in guides and support/thrust bearings. The blade will not be in the centre of the lower wheel as the manufacturer allows the top wheel to be adjusted and tilt to allow tuning.

Is the blade running vertical 90° to the table alignment, front and back as well as side to side?

Once the guides and bearings have been brought to the correct position, (not touching when the blade runs freely) is the blade remaining where it should be when run under power and switched on and off checking several times ? IMPORTANTLY, your guides should all have a locking mechanism and it ius important to make dure that you have tightened those locks tightly. \If not, vibration could allow the guides to move closer and possibly lock the blade.

Make sure that the blade tension is correct, or as near as it can be. Each blade could be different, even if it is the same depth, so needs to be checked whenever changing blades.

If all these things are correct, then you should get a true cut unless you are trying to cut the wood too fast and it's filling the teeth with sawdust and pushing the blade out of line and see if teeth are damaged in any way.

Finally, if you have used the blade before, make sure the teeth are clean, as sawdust and sap can stick in the teeth gullet and side of the blade. Cleaning with a wire brush will result in a far better cut before starting a new job, but certainly on a regular basis. Methalated spirit is good for removing the sap resin if it has built up and don't forgrt to check the wheels for this type of build up.



Carter blade Stabilizer - by Alex Snodgrass. https://youtu.be/w_tv7cm0-VU

This video shows how well a stabilizer works for smaller blades with the guide only above the table. I have one of these which works well. The back of the blade gullet is also on the centre line on the upper wheel as per his usual advice. Product Range - http://www.carterproducts.com/band-saw-products/band-saw-stabilizer


Finally, if you have an older machine with 3 phase connections, this following video may help


https://youtu.be/ZqnfLHhuuUQ = 3 phase converter



Good luck with your woodworkworking.

Malcolm - [email protected]

 

[David Young]

Good Morning. I deliver training for the woodworking industry, The bandsaw is one of the easiest machines to use but can be the most frustrating to set up. I've only 2 mins spare just now. However set the bandsaw up from scratch every time you change your blade. Once you are use to your machine in only takes 5 mins to set up. Always movebyhe thrust bearings and guides well clear of the blade before fitting a new one. Then tension the bkade, track it, set up the top set of guides first then the top thrust bearing. Lastly the bottom guides and the bottom thrust wheel. The videos that have been attached are helpful. Any further assistance let me know, I'll help where I can
Good luck,
Cheers David