Brown Oak outdoor seating project

[earthwoodcrafts.com]

Hi All.

I am currently working on a concept for an outdoor seating project and the timber I would like to use is european and brown oak for colour contrast.
Not sure yet if I want to treat it or not. preferably not as I like how oak weathers with time.
But my worry is that over time the colour difference will fade and both timbers will look the same, in which case I'd treat it with Osmo exterior oil finish.

So here is my question. does anyone have experience with leaving brown oak outside to weather, and how does it change in colour over time?

Hope someone can help.

All the best,

Philipp.

 

[custard]

Hello Philipp, I'll be interested in hearing what others have to say, as I've never let any brown oak weather outside. However, every wood I've ever known seems to bleach out to the same silvery grey when left outside, and that includes very dark tropicals like rosewood, so it would be surprising if brown oak was any different.

Good luck!

 

[david123]

I have just used brown Oak sleepers for raised beds in the garden. I will be interested to see how they work out. I will watch this thread with interest.

 

[Racers]

I didn't think brown oak was good out doors its already been affected by fungus so its partly rotted!
And it's far to nice, Brown oak sleepers! I would loce to see them.

Pete

 

[david123]

Here you go

 

[Chrispy]

Here you go

Sorry to break the bad news but are you sure that's Oak because from here it looks just like treated softwood!

 

[david123]

It was sold to me as brown oak from the Woodyard and I assumed it looked like that because of the disease . Still it's done now and I will live with it.

 

[AndyT]

Have a look at this post:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums...oil-or-sikkens-cetolfilter-7-plus-t59500.html

Although it's on iroko rather than oak, it's a really useful test by member RogerM to see how long commercially available exterior finishes keep the original colour of a sample of wood, rather than letting it go naturally grey.

 

[cedarwood]

Ok here is a photo of brown oak on the right and ordinary oak on the left both as cut from the log from two very different trees, both pieces cut from trees felled on two neighboring farms.

 

[earthwoodcrafts.com]

hello again and thank you all for the replies.

David123, please don't tell me that you paid brown oak-price for those sleepers!?!

AndyT, thanks for the iroko link. that one will be really useful. it makes me want to treat the timber as RogerM did (one coat of Sikkens Cetol HLS Plus light oak stain followed by 3 coats of Sikkens Cetol Filter 7 plus light oak), rather then leaving it to weather.

If my concept will be chosen than I'll post some pics and information about it on here.

Best,

Philipp.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I would echo the comments about brown oak colour. My understanding is that brown oak is regular oak that has been "invaded" by the hyphae of a fungus. Because of the natural tannins and its density, oak is particularly resistant to fungal attack, at least the heartwood is, less so the sapwood. So for oak to become "brown" oak it needs to have been being attacked by the fungus for a very long time. I'll give an example: my neighbour built a new house and in so doing cleared an ancient oak/ash avenue on his land of all the infill hedge species. Very nice for my turning blanks Arsenal it was too. During that time there was one mighty oak that had come down in the 1987 hurricane. It was partially on the ground but so enormous that plenty was above ground. That little sucker got cut up by the tree surgeon to make way for the repurposed avenue. Naturally I accidentally helped them with the burden of all that excess Timber......being neighbourly you understand. Several weeks later I blanked some and stuck it on the lathe and turned a fruit bowl. We'll blow me, at one point I thought it was teak! The colour was a rich, deep, almost tropical brown and its texture was different too. Definitely softer, less scratchy, more buttery to the tools. It was wonderful stuff. I now curse myself for not having taken much more but because the sapwood was quite rotten, like a Pratt I rejected much of it out of ignorance, just taking the larger butt pieces. It's still amongst the best wood I've ever turned and it was folk in my club that confirmed its identity. So brown oak isnt the kind of stuff you get at your local Jewsons, oh no, it's much more specialist than that from my understanding

 

[david123]

No, only paid about £13 a sleeper, I did tell the yard what I was using them for and they told me that would be fine. Whatever the outcome, I have what I have and will have t live with it or change it if need be. Life is to short to worry about it. At the end of the day the buck stops with me.

I will now get back to fitting my real oak floorboards in the hall

Have a good day

 

[custard]

I would echo the comments about brown oak colour. My understanding is that brown oak is regular oak that has been "invaded" by the hyphae of a fungus. Because of the natural tannins and its density, oak is particularly resistant to fungal attack, at least the heartwood is, less so the sapwood. So for oak to become "brown" oak it needs to have been being attacked by the fungus for a very long time....It's still amongst the best wood I've ever turned and it was folk in my club that confirmed its identity. So brown oak isnt the kind of stuff you get at your local Jewsons, oh no, it's much more specialist than that from my understanding

You raise a really interesting point Bob, and I'd love to know more about exactly how long it takes for Brown Oak to turn brown. The reason I ask is that there's a curious half way stage, called "Tiger Oak", when the fungus has invaded but hasn't yet completely turned the tree brown, instead there are streaks of brown and streaks of the normal Oak. The phrase "Tiger Oak" is sometimes used by antique dealers to describe any and all quarter sawn Oak, but I think that's just the Antique trade talking up their own book, amongst cabinet makers Tiger Oak always means this rare transition stage, and highly prized it is too.

I was lucky enough to find two complete logs in this state and bought them both, sawn up into a mixture of 30mm and 60mm boards so it's a versatile stock of timber that I'll probably be using, along with other timbers, for the next two or three years until it's all exhausted. As a small independent maker it's difficult to compete, but I find by using these rarer timbers I can carve out a real point of difference that potential clients appreciate and are willing to pay for.

These are some of the boards, rubbish iPhone snaps I'm afraid

I've started making furniture from this stock so if anyone's interested in what the finished product looks like I'll post some some snaps in the "last thing you made" thread in the General Forum. I'm sure I'll have some decent sized off-cuts Bob so if you're ever passing and want some for your turning projects then you're welcome.

 

[Paul200]

Hi Custard

Here's someone who may know more about Tiger Oak.

http://www.finehardwoodboxes.com/box-ga ... ellery-box

Peter Lloyd travels all over looking for unusual timber for his boxes and is an exceptionally helpful guy. Drop him a message.

Paul

 

[monkeybiter]

Custard, I for one would be interested in some piccies, in fact with your evident knowledge and experience I think a wip is overdue

 

[custard]

Hello Mike, I've posted some snaps on the "last thing you made" thread on the main forum.

I have thought about a WIP but when I'm busy on a build I often forget to take any photos! Also I'm not sure where I'd pitch it, should I wait for a relatively straight forward project that's got broad appeal, or do something a bit trickier that's not been well covered on the internet, but would only be relevant for a smaller group?

I get the impression for example that more complicated jointed chairs have had almost zero internet coverage, but to be honest there's probably good reason for that. You need to sink an awful lot of time in making 10 or 15 dedicated jigs for each chair design and consequently they're so expensive to make that most independent cabinet makers advise their clients to buy chairs from Heals or Liberties and they'll make a matching table, desk, or whatever. You can buy a really good factory made chair for £350, but it's hard for the small maker to produce something good for under £1200. Consequently I tend to make chairs only in unique timbers (like Tiger Oak) to match a specific desk or dressing table made from the same wood, in other words something where it's impossible to find a factory made chair in the same timber and the cost can get hidden in a "combined" price for say a desk and a matching chair.

Incidentally, I've earmarked the 60mm board in the first photo for a chair because the curve in the grain is ideal for the long back leg/backrest pieces. The second photo shows one half of a book matched pair of 30mm sequential boards that when jointed would make a beautiful solid desk top.

 

[monkeybiter]

Thanks for the enlightening reply. I realise that a wip would be a PITA, but perhaps then a picture of a chair [for instance] followed by brief explanations of the jigs required for each line and joint, rather than a full blown picture set with write ups.
Obviously I'm just trying to appeal to your good nature, and in all honesty I'm unlikely to attempt any single piece requiring such an investment in practise time then making time, but I think an explanation of the process would be very informative to a lot of us who aren't in the trade, are untrained and can sometimes wonder what justifies prices [although your post above goes a long way to doing just that], and maybe lead to a more successful approach to future work.

 

[woodfarmer]

Is this considered brown oak, taken from a long felled oak tree left out in the fields.

 

[custard]

Is this considered brown oak, taken from a long felled oak tree left out in the fields.

Yes from the photo that looks like Brown Oak, unless you used a staining finish.

I see you're based in Poitiers, did you get it in France?

The reason I ask is that lots of people say Brown Oak is always English Oak, because for some unknown reason the Beefsteak Mushroom only has this effect on UK Oak trees. Indeed it's that perception that made Brown Oak one of the favourite timbers for the original Arts & Crafts makers, that it was the definitive British timber.

Personally I've always thought that theory was a bit dodgy, but then again I've seen truckloads of imported French Oak without ever spotting any Brown Oak boards, and you also get some other cross Channel oddities like Mistletoe growing on Apple trees here but not on Normandy Apples. So who really knows? Not us simple woodies that's for sure!

 

[woodfarmer]

Is this considered brown oak, taken from a long felled oak tree left out in the fields.

Yes from the photo that looks like Brown Oak, unless you used a staining finish.

I see you're based in Poitiers, did you get it in France?

Yes, old tree had been hit by lightning, much of centre burned out, mostly rotten, but really liked the figuring in some of the 5 inch slabs i was sawing in into for firewood

The reason I ask is that lots of people say Brown Oak is always English Oak, because for some unknown reason the Beefsteak Mushroom only has this effect on UK Oak trees. Indeed it's that perception that made Brown Oak one of the favourite timbers for the original Arts & Crafts makers, that it was the definitive British timber.

Personally I've always thought that theory was a bit dodgy, but then again I've seen truckloads of imported French Oak without ever spotting any Brown Oak boards, and you also get some other cross Channel oddities like Mistletoe growing on Apple trees here but not on Normandy Apples. So who really knows? Not us simple woodies that's for sure!

re the mistletoe, around here it infests poplar trees, the tall type they use for veneers and matchsticks.

This is the bit of tree from where it came.