jimi43
Established Member
That'll work Richard....does it work with full clamp down on the lever cap?
Jim
Jim
Bronze casting infill plane WIP
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Jim,
If the lever cap screw is tightened hard it is necessary to slacken it a bit before an adjustment can be made. However, with the adjuster in place I think it is not necessary to have the screw as tight as if the adjuster is not there. Some experiments needed?
This plane has a Bailey type lever cap and an "rxh" adjuster and adjustments can be made without fiddling with the lever cap screw:
If the lever cap screw is tightened hard it is necessary to slacken it a bit before an adjustment can be made. However, with the adjuster in place I think it is not necessary to have the screw as tight as if the adjuster is not there. Some experiments needed?
This plane has a Bailey type lever cap and an "rxh" adjuster and adjustments can be made without fiddling with the lever cap screw:
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jimi43
Established Member
Yes...I think this type of adjuster will work better with the "Bailey" type cap because it is nowhere near as tight as a lever cap. I can't see anything with a fine thread working with a lever cap tightened enough to lock down the iron.....that is the inherent problem because the coarser you make the thread the more sensitive the adjuster and this is where the Norris one falls down in my experience.
Personally...I think it is trying to get over a problem that just isn't there. I find tapping to be both fast and accurate...but it does take experience which takes time.
Jimi
Personally...I think it is trying to get over a problem that just isn't there. I find tapping to be both fast and accurate...but it does take experience which takes time.
Jimi
gasman
Established Member
Oooh Richard that's interesting and I agree looks achievable even given my limited metalworking skills. I will have a look in more detail tonight at what I need to get in terms of stock. Thanks for posting I will investigate
barryvabeach
Member
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gasman
Established Member
Nice plane Barry! Did you have lots of problems doing it? How many hours did it take you? I seem to take a long time to do each stage but it is such good fun doing it.
Over the weekend I have got quite a bit done
I drilled out the plane mouth carefully with a 4mm drill bit
Then I realised that, of course, when I add the 2mm sole, the mouth will get smaller so I had plenty of room to mill out the mouth with a 6mm cutter
A very long process of filing out the mouth ensued. I went for 47.5 degrees for the rear mouth and 60 degrees for the front. I had bought a new set of Bahco files from Axi for the purpose and they make an amazing difference
Cheers Mark
Over the weekend I have got quite a bit done
I drilled out the plane mouth carefully with a 4mm drill bit
Then I realised that, of course, when I add the 2mm sole, the mouth will get smaller so I had plenty of room to mill out the mouth with a 6mm cutter
A very long process of filing out the mouth ensued. I went for 47.5 degrees for the rear mouth and 60 degrees for the front. I had bought a new set of Bahco files from Axi for the purpose and they make an amazing difference
Cheers Mark
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barryvabeach
Member
Mark, I did not keep track, but it felt like forever. A lot of time was spent deciding on style - did I want the lever cap to come off, and if so did I want a screw in lever cap, or slot the pin, reduce the diameter of the ends, and use a spring ( that is the route I choose) and of course the style and dimensions of the front bun and rear handle were changed numerous times in the planning stage. BTW, nice job on drilling the mouth. I made a mistake when drilling mine, and ended up too far back. It is a cosmetic defect because the iron is still supported to the bottom of the bevel, but the mouth extends behind the blade a little bit. I used mostly Grobet files, but as you point out, good files in good shape make a huge difference.
gasman
Established Member
On Sunday I started on the infill
I had a turning blank about 220mm square x 80mm marked 'Nemesu' which I have never heard of but which i believe is a malaysian hardwood similar to meranti. However it looks like mahogany, has beautiful figuring and I thought looked perfect for the job
I have definitely decided not to overstuff so I cut off a 70mm wide piece and marked it out for the rear infill
Cut it out the right side of the line on the bandsaw
Meanwhile I had decided the inside of the casting was way to uneven so I milled it so I had a flattish reference surface
Then it was just a matter of planing it down to size. The internal walls of the casting are very slightly sloped inwards which meant I could just go bit by bit until it fitted tightly
Once it was sized I planed / scraped it down level with the side walls using card scrapers and a Boggs spokeshave
The figuring on the infill is lovely - it is going to be a nice piece of wood when finished
I have ordered the gauge plate to make the iron, and a piece of phosphor bronze for the lever cap. Need to start thinking about the adjuster and how to make
Regards Mark
I had a turning blank about 220mm square x 80mm marked 'Nemesu' which I have never heard of but which i believe is a malaysian hardwood similar to meranti. However it looks like mahogany, has beautiful figuring and I thought looked perfect for the job
I have definitely decided not to overstuff so I cut off a 70mm wide piece and marked it out for the rear infill
Cut it out the right side of the line on the bandsaw
Meanwhile I had decided the inside of the casting was way to uneven so I milled it so I had a flattish reference surface
Then it was just a matter of planing it down to size. The internal walls of the casting are very slightly sloped inwards which meant I could just go bit by bit until it fitted tightly
Once it was sized I planed / scraped it down level with the side walls using card scrapers and a Boggs spokeshave
The figuring on the infill is lovely - it is going to be a nice piece of wood when finished
I have ordered the gauge plate to make the iron, and a piece of phosphor bronze for the lever cap. Need to start thinking about the adjuster and how to make
Regards Mark
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Paul Chapman
Established Member
That's looking very nice, Mark
Cheers :wink:
Paul
Cheers :wink:
Paul
Mark
If you don't want to go the self made blade route, I think I have a 2 5/8" Herring parallel blade somewhere about. I'll have a look this evening, if your interested. It is uncut, if I recall, so you will have to drill for the adjuster.
With regard to that, one of Robert Wearing's helpful books dealt with making an adjuster without a lathe, much as Richard has shown, and I made a couple, reasonably successfully, as experiments, before I purchased a lathe.
Personally, I have never been successful with the non=adjuster route. I have an old Japanese plane, with a very good blade, which I can never consistently adjust. The Bailey adjuster is a sound, repeatable design, but there are too many places in the mechanism where where slackness can arise. I appreciate that in the overall scheme of things, one extra turn of the brass wheel is neither here or there, and the blade still advances or retracts, but it can feel altogether too sloppy.
Mike
If you don't want to go the self made blade route, I think I have a 2 5/8" Herring parallel blade somewhere about. I'll have a look this evening, if your interested. It is uncut, if I recall, so you will have to drill for the adjuster.
With regard to that, one of Robert Wearing's helpful books dealt with making an adjuster without a lathe, much as Richard has shown, and I made a couple, reasonably successfully, as experiments, before I purchased a lathe.
Personally, I have never been successful with the non=adjuster route. I have an old Japanese plane, with a very good blade, which I can never consistently adjust. The Bailey adjuster is a sound, repeatable design, but there are too many places in the mechanism where where slackness can arise. I appreciate that in the overall scheme of things, one extra turn of the brass wheel is neither here or there, and the blade still advances or retracts, but it can feel altogether too sloppy.
Mike
gasman
Established Member
Many thanks Mike for the kind offer. I have ordered the O1 steel and I am actually quite excited about making an iron - doubt if I will do it again but who knows. Philly has said he will harden it for me so I will stick to this plan but thanks again for all your kind words. I will definitely be making an adjuster - more than anything for the metalworking practice. It will be similar to Richards and others - a single 1/4" x 40 thread and I will post when I have made progress
Many thanks once again
Regards
Mark
Many thanks once again
Regards
Mark
Biliphuster
Established Member
Very nice work, especially how neatly you filed the mouth, it's great to see that it is at least possible without a milling machine.
gasman
Established Member
Early this morning before work I started having a look at the handle for the rear infill
I had previously glued together 2 pieces to get a piece high enough (I wanted the grain orientation of the handle to be the same as the rear infill body). I carefully matched the grains and growth rings of the 2 pieces and glued up with TB1 - the joint is all but invisible and I am confident you wont be able to see any join when it is shaped and finished
I drilled out the handle with a Forstner bit
So I used the Norris smoother as a model to draw the outline roughly and cut it out on the bandsaw
Cleaned up the edges with a plane. The angle is 48 degrees at the moment
I needed to clean up the matching angled part of the rear infill body too as it was not square, so did this in the vice with a plane
By then it was 0615 and I had to go to work
Also arrived yesterday was my epoxy to attach the 2mm mild steel plate to the base of the plane
Thats going to be a 'big cahoonas' moment as it needs to go on really flat
Regards
Mark
I had previously glued together 2 pieces to get a piece high enough (I wanted the grain orientation of the handle to be the same as the rear infill body). I carefully matched the grains and growth rings of the 2 pieces and glued up with TB1 - the joint is all but invisible and I am confident you wont be able to see any join when it is shaped and finished
I drilled out the handle with a Forstner bit
So I used the Norris smoother as a model to draw the outline roughly and cut it out on the bandsaw
Cleaned up the edges with a plane. The angle is 48 degrees at the moment
I needed to clean up the matching angled part of the rear infill body too as it was not square, so did this in the vice with a plane
By then it was 0615 and I had to go to work
Also arrived yesterday was my epoxy to attach the 2mm mild steel plate to the base of the plane
Thats going to be a 'big cahoonas' moment as it needs to go on really flat
Regards
Mark
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gasman
Established Member
Pete thats a great idea thanks - and at least I will be able to clamp it very well from above as it were.
The only reason I did not do this job this morning is that I have not fully decided how to secure the infills. My previous infill plane has put me off riveting the infills in place - all I can see is nasty marking and denting of the bronze sides.
That leaves side screws which i have never really liked the look of.... or fixing some kind of threaded insert to the casting and then screwing from above (like a Norris) or finally glueing it in with epoxy which is certainly the easiest but obviously more difficult to remove the infills!
Any views?
Thanks Mark
The only reason I did not do this job this morning is that I have not fully decided how to secure the infills. My previous infill plane has put me off riveting the infills in place - all I can see is nasty marking and denting of the bronze sides.
That leaves side screws which i have never really liked the look of.... or fixing some kind of threaded insert to the casting and then screwing from above (like a Norris) or finally glueing it in with epoxy which is certainly the easiest but obviously more difficult to remove the infills!
Any views?
Thanks Mark
gasman
Established Member
I have thought about it a bit more and I think I have decided to screw the infills like a Norris...
So I have thought through a plan as follows:
Before attaching the sole plate, I will epoxy 3 x 1/4" thick solid stainless 'washers' to the inside of the casting where I want the screws to attach
Then drill holes through the centre of these washers right through the sole of the brass casting
Then tap these holes with the thread I will use on the 3 attaching screws - that way I will have enough thread to get a good grip but undue tension will not be placed on the epoxy joint.
Then with the infills in place, drill up through the infills so that the holes in the infills are in exactly the right place
Finally attach the sole with the epoxy...
Comments criticism etc welcome
Thanks Mark
So I have thought through a plan as follows:
Before attaching the sole plate, I will epoxy 3 x 1/4" thick solid stainless 'washers' to the inside of the casting where I want the screws to attach
Then drill holes through the centre of these washers right through the sole of the brass casting
Then tap these holes with the thread I will use on the 3 attaching screws - that way I will have enough thread to get a good grip but undue tension will not be placed on the epoxy joint.
Then with the infills in place, drill up through the infills so that the holes in the infills are in exactly the right place
Finally attach the sole with the epoxy...
Comments criticism etc welcome
Thanks Mark
Mark
Sounds complicated. If you ever want/need to replace the infills, you will have to devise another method of attachment to put them back, if I understand your description and you have screwed up through the sole, before fixing the steel sole plate.
Given the time and skill you are investing in this project, I doubt that you will be treating it roughly, but accidents can always happen.
I have an old Mathieson coffin casting somewhere about, which I was given by my late Father in law. the front infill is beyond recall but the rear, overstuffed is a sort of bun shaped, and may need to come out. There aren't any obvious signs of how it is fixed in, but I must give some thought to this next year.
On my Bristol bronze mitre casting, I epoxied, but on the small brass and steel d/t plane I made several years ago, I went the KH route with a riveted steel pin, within a brass tube. With care and protection from sticky tape, I managed without dings.
On the current project, I will do the same, if only because I drilled all the cross holes in the side plates at the same time, when the plates were originally lightly riveted together.
I am not sure that it makes an awful lot of difference because the chances of you extracting the infill without major damage, is, i would think, relatively slim. If you think that you are likely to want to repair or change the infills altogether, screwing is your only option, but like you, I am not keen on any more screw heads on the sides than absolutely necessary.
Be very interested to hear from anyone else who has managed the extraction of infills without destruction.
Regards Mike
Sounds complicated. If you ever want/need to replace the infills, you will have to devise another method of attachment to put them back, if I understand your description and you have screwed up through the sole, before fixing the steel sole plate.
Given the time and skill you are investing in this project, I doubt that you will be treating it roughly, but accidents can always happen.
I have an old Mathieson coffin casting somewhere about, which I was given by my late Father in law. the front infill is beyond recall but the rear, overstuffed is a sort of bun shaped, and may need to come out. There aren't any obvious signs of how it is fixed in, but I must give some thought to this next year.
On my Bristol bronze mitre casting, I epoxied, but on the small brass and steel d/t plane I made several years ago, I went the KH route with a riveted steel pin, within a brass tube. With care and protection from sticky tape, I managed without dings.
On the current project, I will do the same, if only because I drilled all the cross holes in the side plates at the same time, when the plates were originally lightly riveted together.
I am not sure that it makes an awful lot of difference because the chances of you extracting the infill without major damage, is, i would think, relatively slim. If you think that you are likely to want to repair or change the infills altogether, screwing is your only option, but like you, I am not keen on any more screw heads on the sides than absolutely necessary.
Be very interested to hear from anyone else who has managed the extraction of infills without destruction.
Regards Mike
jimi43
Established Member
On "Richard" I simply drilled holes in the sides..countersank the holes but shallow and fitted screws so that only the part without the slot was below the surface and then filed off the tops. Worked well. If you need to remove them again...you drill out the screw..use a screw extractor to remove the screw thread...and the infill pops out.
Wonderful job so far mate! Wonderful!
Jimi
Wonderful job so far mate! Wonderful!
Jimi
gasman
Established Member
Hi Mike
I obviously didn't explain it well enough sorry
Having tapped threads in the holes in the sole, I will drill the holes from below into the infills to get them correctly positioned - but then countersink the holes in the infills from above and the screws will be coming from above - one in the front bun and 2 in the rear infill, one under the adjuster and one under the handle hole - like this Norris A1
Does that make more sense?
You make good points though - I will ponder some more and wait to see what others think
Thanks and regards Mark
I obviously didn't explain it well enough sorry
Having tapped threads in the holes in the sole, I will drill the holes from below into the infills to get them correctly positioned - but then countersink the holes in the infills from above and the screws will be coming from above - one in the front bun and 2 in the rear infill, one under the adjuster and one under the handle hole - like this Norris A1
Does that make more sense?
You make good points though - I will ponder some more and wait to see what others think
Thanks and regards Mark
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I've no experience of doing this so don't know what is best, but over in the thread about steel plane bodies I just posted a link to this article by Peter McBride about the construction of late Norris panel planes which I think is relevant.
http://www.petermcbride.com/norris_panel/
It shows that they used little cylindrical studs, tapped to take screws holding the infills down. It says that these were riveted through the sole, which would be quite easy to do. You could turn or file a shoulder into each stud but that might not be necessary. Drill and tap after riveting in place.
This could be stronger than your idea where I think you would be relying on the threads within the thickness of the sole, if the epoxy joint fails in tension. Also you would have a bit more room for error on the length of the screws.
The riveting would be hidden by the glued on sole of course.
http://www.petermcbride.com/norris_panel/
It shows that they used little cylindrical studs, tapped to take screws holding the infills down. It says that these were riveted through the sole, which would be quite easy to do. You could turn or file a shoulder into each stud but that might not be necessary. Drill and tap after riveting in place.
This could be stronger than your idea where I think you would be relying on the threads within the thickness of the sole, if the epoxy joint fails in tension. Also you would have a bit more room for error on the length of the screws.
The riveting would be hidden by the glued on sole of course.
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