Bronze casting infill plane WIP

[gasman]

My second infill plane is going to be this old lump of casting I bought off eBay for £44 a couple of years ago.

The description says not for the faint-hearted and, having been gathering dust since purchase I had kept putting it off
However once I had started I think it is going to be an amazing plane. It weighs a ton. There is going to be some serious heft in the final product!
I started on saturday morning and probably spent 6 hours on saturday on the project. I had done enough to persuade myself that the project was a keeper by late afternoon
Here was the lump before I started

I started by flattering the base. A combination of files, 4" belt sander with 60G belt, 80G sandpaper stuck to a glass float was used and it took ages

Once the bottom was fairly flat, I then flattened the sides so that they were perpendicular to the base

Finally I cleaned up the edges and the ends where the infills will not extend to

So, in no particular order I have the following problems to solve:
1. I need to cut the mouth out but it is difficult to get to where the mouth will be from the inside because of the sides of the plane. I am planning to mill a 6mm slot for the mouth and then enlarge it from within by hand with files etc
2. I need a blade cap-iron and adjuster. I am going to give Bristol Design a call later today to see what they have in stock. I might try an adjuster at some stage but I think it is a step too far yet
3. I have ordered a lump of brass for the lever cap
4. The insides of the plane are so rough that fitting the infill will be more difficult but again you can't get a mill in there because of the sides
5. I need to think about whether to overstuff the infills or whether to bevel the edges of the sides - I tend towards the latter but presumably that has to be done by hand which seems v tricky
I saved quite a lot of brass filings which I might use in future for infills (i.e. marquetry not infill planes)!
There will be lots of other problems I am sure!
Regards Mark

 

[Mr_P]

Great news Mark, will be watching with great interest.

I have over stuffed and understuffed infills, aesthetically I prefer overstuffed. You have more than enough skill to pull this off but it would be a bigger/longer job.

Have you given any thought to sweating a steel sole onto the bronze ?

Good Luck,
Carl

 

[gasman]

Thanks for the comments Carl
I had only thought of bevelling the sides because I was fairly sure that Jimi of this parish did that for Richards infill plane??
Errr no hadn't thought of the steel sole. Is that just because bronze is a bit soft? How does one attach it - rivets ? or some dark-art welding brazing technique which I will know nothing about! I will do some digging
Ah found it in Jim Kingshott's book about how to sweat the steel sole on. Sounds tricky though?
Thanks again
BW
MArk

 

[Mr_P]

Peter McBride makes it look easy here

http://www.petermcbride.com/plane_restore/

Please ignore my earlier comment, having just spent some time looking at under and over stuffed Jointers I'd like to reverse my earlier opinion.

 

[Bedrock]

If you wanted the lever cap to match the colour of the casting, try Lees of Yapton, in West Sussex. They usually have lumps of bronze of the appropriate size.

Bristol Design used to sell Norris type adjusters. Might be worth asking, Fitting is fairly simple but the main problem I found, is drilling the adjustment holes in a hardened blade. It must vary between the various types of blade/steel, but I have never had the kit or the confidence to anneal, drill and then reharden. I have somewhere a LN A2 blade which has blunted several carbide drills, and only shows a small dimple from the initial sharp drill bit. If anyone has any suggestions, I would be interested to learn.

Can you give the basic dimensions, please, including some idea of the weight.

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out.

 

[gasman]

Thanks Bedrock
I was on the phone earlier to Charles at Bristol Design and he is going to sell me a Norris adjuster for £48 plus an old 2 1/2" blade and cap iron. He also has a mitre plane infill casting which I might take off his hands.
I will call the guys in Yapton as you suggest and ask about bronze lumps. My cobalt Famag drill bits will cut A2 steel but it is a slow progress
Thanks again
Mark

 

[Bedrock]

Mark

Thanks for this. Did you need to lubricate the drill?
I made up one of their mitre plane kits some years ago, which they were then selling as a bronze casting, machined externally, the adjuster and a lever cap and Herring blade (already drilled for the adjuster). I was quite pleased with the result, but recall that there is not much "meat" under the rear infill adjuster slot, for the attachment screws.
There was a steel sole riveted and soldered on. It carries some weight so I guess you won't need the gym membership when your jointer is up and running.

Mike

 

[gasman]

Yes I always lubricate when cutting any metal - seems to go much better every time
I am going to try and get some 2mm mild steel and sweat a sole on as described - it sounds a great trick to do having now read up how it's done. Its all a bit scary this metalworking. Woodworking is easy if you make a mistake you just cut another bit or hide the mistake but this is harder!
Cheers Mike
Mark

 

[AndyT]

I too shall be watching with interest. I am particularly impressed by the way you have lined up your next infill project already!

I do know from talking to Colin in Bristol Design that when they sold some bronze planes with sweated on steel soles they used a kiln (I think a potter's kiln) to get plenty of heat into the casting before applying gas torches for the final hit.
Your plane looks harder to heat up than the smaller ones in the helpful article Mr P linked to.

I am told that modern adhesives are just as good for this job but have not tried either method.

 

[gasman]

I measured it last night - the sole measures 80 x 360mm. It weighs a fraction over 3kg for the casting (and I have already removed several 100g in filing etc). I can't believe it will be much less than 5kg once it has all the bits and pieces. Some workout!
I have ordered some 2mm mild steel for the sole. Waiting for Bristol Design to get back to me. Going to cut the mouth this friday. I have my excitement levels back again - amazing how that happens
Cheers
Mark

 

[Bedrock]

Mark
What lubricant do you recommend? Tried WD40 as it was the closest to hand, but might not have designed for this purpose. Didn't seem to work!

I have been interested in the possibility of using modern adhesives for various plane-making projects, but don't know what are appropriate, given that they seem to be expensive to experiment with. Any one any recommendations?

I am part way through making a smoother, using gauge plate, fixing with countersunk machine screws, then the heads filed off to a flush finish. It crossed my mind that at some stages in the making, gluing might be helpful, if the glue line is minimal.

Might be worth trying gauge plate for the sole - it comes in fairly convenient lengths, individually wrapped, and should be "flat" for your purpose. My experience with thin mild steel has been variable as it is usually stored in long lengths and the thinner sections can sag.

Have just seen your latest. Amazing how the enthusiasm ebbs and flows. Can go for several weeks whilst i puzzle out a solution. Good luck - very keen to hear how Friday goes.

Mike

 

[gasman]

Hi Mike
I use this http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catal...ree-Tapping-Cutting-Fluid-500ml-170-150-00100 which I got from arceurotools when I bought my mill. It does the job well
Thanks for the gauge plate idea - will investigate
Cheers
Mark

 

[Racers]

A hardpoint saw would be another source for thin flat high carbon steel.


Pete

 

[Mr_P]

A hardpoint saw would be another source for thin flat high carbon steel.


Pete

Richard Arnold did just that
three-little-castings-less-skilled-northern-version-t79592.html

 

[gasman]

Thats a great idea about the hard point saw but wouldn't it take me about 3 weeks to cut it with a hacksaw?

 

[AndyT]

Thats a great idea about the hard point saw but wouldn't it take me about 3 weeks to cut it with a hacksaw?

No, it's only the tips of the teeth that are hardened.

 

[jimi43]

Great project Mark...and I will be following it closely now i know it's here.

Firstly...adjuster...I have sat on the fence regarding the "Norris" adjuster for a long while..in the hope I would find one I actually liked. Well..having just bought an A71 with a near pristine adjuster with virtually no play...I still wanted to rip it out and stamp on it after only an hour and took to lateral adjustment with a hammer out of desperation. So my opinion is now firmly on the "wouldn't touch one with a bargepole" camp! :mrgreen:

Jim Kingshott designs are much better apparently but either require the release of pressure on the lever cap and for me that just adds error when you retighten it. I'd say you are right not to bother..they are more trouble than they are worth.

Infilling castings is as you rightly say....much more difficult than infilling dovetailed bodies. Having done both I don't think I would attempt another casting again for the very reasons you state. If you overstuff a lot...you can use this as the registration point rather than the inner sole of the plane...ok you get close but it's the overhang on the infill which actually lines it up.

If you can't find the original post on my Scottish infill smoother restoration...you can get an abridged version on WKFINE TOOLS Magazine site... and the shorter version of the "Richard" build is on there too if that helps.

You mentioned using burr wood...that would look lovely but it is very unpredictable and if you are overstuffing you are probably going to find voids and aberrations in just the places you don't want....so that may be something to take into consideration.

Regarding milling cutters...you might want to reduce the number of flutes and use solid carbide ones.

I use two flute ones from Cutwell Tools...they are really helpful people and the cutters are top quality. WD40 should work fine with these too...I use it to cut aluminium with one of those Rage saws and it definitely eases the cut and makes for a finer quality result.

Looking forward to the next steps...it looks like a grand project.

Cheers

Jimi

 

[gasman]

Thanks Jimi
Wise words as always
I take your adjuster point well made
Interestingly the only plane I have in which the adjuster works well without loosening the lever cap is a small low angle veritas plane I use for end grain - this you can advance and retract even when the blade is fixed firmly. This is my only Veritas plane - can anyone tell me if other Veritas plane adjusters behave the same?
So I am now thinking of having a go at making a Veritas-type single thread adjuster single which seem to be similar to the Jim Kingshott adjusters he describes in his wonderful book.
I have done lots of reading about sweating the sole on using solder. It actually doesn't sound too difficult except for the size of this behemoth which make getting it hot enough quite a challenge. Add to this the fact that there may be stresses inside the bronze casting which make it liable to distort when heated to high temperature make me nervous - and therefore I think am going to use JBWeld original epoxy to 'glue' the steel gauge plate onto the casting. Others have done the same and I think it should be fine. Even bigger day on Friday
My next big question is whether to make the iron or buy one. Matthew sells a 2 5/8" Quangsheng blade and cap iron for £50 total which would probably be OK but it would not be the same as making one. If I did make one I think I would need to get it hardened professionally as I have never done anything remotely like that before. mmmm
Thanks for advice as always
Mark

 

[Andy RV]

You're braving tackling this without a big milling machine!

 

[rxh]

Making an adjuster is fairly easy if you do it my way. There is no plate to screw to the infill, instead a brass tube is fixed in the infill and acts as a bearing for the adjuster to turn in. This arrangement has very little backlash and the adjuster may be removed instantly, if desired, to convert to a "plain" plane. I have been using 1/4" x 32 TPI ME threads because I had taps and die of this size. It works well but I intend to try 1/4" x 40 TPI ME next time (which is the size recommended by Jim Kingshott and I believe that Bedrock has also used it with success). All the parts can be made from round and hex barstock, costing very little. I encourage you to have a go