British Woodworking No.3

[OPJ]

If it wasn't for this thread, I'd still be working on the assumption that your really name is Byron also! :roll: :wink:

Thanks and well done to Ian for spotting my bandsaw jig - I see your blades got several mentions also. :wink:

I really liked the mitre saw dust hood idea and it's one I intend to try and some point in the future. I have a bad habit of using my extractor with everything except my mitre saw - but this looks like it could contain a large amount of dust from burying your workshop, even without suction.

I still need to give it a proper read-through but I like your design, By- er... Colin!

 

[Nick Gibbs]

On-topic. I really like the look of the Mirka sanding pad, its definitly on my xmas list.

Not so sure myself, don't like the look fo that suction pipe sticking out the back, could be quite a restriction.

The Mirka sanding pad is fantastic. I realised the other day that I've been editing woodworking magazines for nearly 20 years now (off and on), and this is certainly one of the top five products I've ever seen. The hose is surprisingly un-restrictive actually. You hardly notice it's there, and the benefits certainly outweigh and obstruction. If you ask for any one product for Christmas, ask for this.

Nick

 

[Fecn]

Is this the Mirka sanding pad you're referring to?

Video looks cool if nothing else.
video link

 

[Nick Gibbs]

That's the stuff. Weird video. The stuff was designed originally for the car body industry. It is fantastic. It's not just the abrasive itself. As you can see in the mag, without extraction the block soon clogs up. The moment you turn on the vacuum the dust is removed. It has transformed my workshop. For the first time ever I'm keen to sand by hand, and it makes the whole process easier, more pleasant and more effective.

We're interested to see how well the sanding block works with normal cloth abrasive (stamped with holes), and whether it needs to be Abranet.

Nick

 

[oddsocks]

Many months ago I bought a set of 3 abralon pads (which I now know are made by the same company as Abranet). 500,1000 and 2000 grit. I have used them for lathe work - pens mainly and they are excellent dry on wood or wet on melanine or acrylic. I only need to buy more because I have worn the backing out and there are tears (the rip kind not wet ones).

Definitely the longest lasting and most useful abrasive I have used - just about to buy this lot for £20 which includes abranet....ebay link


PS Nick - I've only got as far as the chairmaking article but after the trailers in this thread I've plenty to look forward to.

 

[mailee]

We use this abrasive at work (vehicle bodyshop) and it is good. Mirka seem to have got it just right with these as they last much longer than the 3M stuff we were using. All of our system is based on the Mirka setup and we have a few various blocks with extraction along with the DA or ROS sanders. I can contest to how good they are as I also use these in my woodwork. :wink:

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Somebody at Harrogate said told me that 3M also make a sanding block for working by hand with extraction. I'll see if we can get hold of one to compare with the Mirka model.

Nick

 

[Martingchapman]

Some interesting discussions, but can I return to the original thread about the magazine.

Including British Woodworking I read three monthly woodworking magazines and am often tempted into building one of the featured projects, or something very much like them.

However as a hobby/weekend/doing it for myself woodworker I worry about the cost of the timber.

Would it be possible for magazine contributors to include how much the timber for the project cost?

I accept that it is difficult to give an accurate cost and sometimes the timber used is what is in the workshop at the time (not bought specifically for the project) but an approximate cost would help.

At least this would enable me to estimate if the project was possible within my budget, ie was it less than £100 between £100 and £200 or over £200, in terms of the timber cost.

I am not very experienced in buying hardwood (other than I consider it is expensive) so do not really have any idea of the cost of the projects.

Any one else feel this would be helpful?

Martin.

 

[Slim]

Hi Martin,

Yes I think that is a good idea.

BB did mention in his article that he got all the timber for his table from ebay and that it cost less than £30.

Come on Nick, put me out of my misery. How many screws were in the jar?

 

[Nick Gibbs]

I agree about the cost of timber idea. We'll try to feature that as often as possible. I think that many people are uncertain about buying hardwoods, and any help we can offer must be good.

There were 1503 screws in the jar at the North of England Woodworking Show, and the winner was Alan Crichton from Co. Down (who was only three off that total, and obviously counted them). Thanks to everyone who visited our stand and especially those who took us up on the amazing subscription offer that gets you £25 worth of Screw-Tite screws when you subscribe for 12 issues.

Cheers

Nick

 

[Adam]

Having written a few articles, I can say its extremely difficult to "price" timber. For a number of reasons. Most people who are keen on woodworking tend to overbuy, so they have some left over for the nic-nacs box. This often gets used to build odd extra projects.

Secondly, some people buy PAR, others by the plank. Wastage and processing time can be quite hard to quantify as it depends on the project.

Timber with a nice grain, may be essential to someone, and not another. The choice of a particular timber, say Walnut, may cause an unjustifiable cost (to some) whilst if you were to look at the actual cubic quantity of timber in a different wood, it would be wildly different.

Adam

 

[Martingchapman]

Adam,
All your points are very valid.
Of course there are many variables involved in the process of obtaining the timber for a project which you have listed in your post.

What I am suggesting is, if it is possible, can the author of the article give the reader an idea of the cost of the timber for their project based on what they paid.

If there is an allowance for wastage then include that as anyone following the article would have the same wastage.
If the timber used is expensive such as walnut then give the price paid for the walnut, anyone else can then adjust up or down based on their choice of timber and its cost in relation to walnut.
However, if it was bits and pieces from stock then I would not expect the author to research the price of the timber and estimate the cost.

I don't disagree with your comments, what I am suggesting is, where possible eg. in the case of the author having purchased the timber for the project can they let the reader know what they paid for it to give the reader some guide as to what they can expect to spend if they want to build the same project.

Martin.

 

[les chicken]

Re cost of timber.

Although it would be nice for articles to include the cost, it could also confuse and alienate readers, due to the cost of timber rising faster than inflation.

For example :- Four years ago I built a summer house come pool room for a neighbor. Cost of ply trade £13 + vat, now the same material £28 + vat. If an article is written quoting costs by the time it is published, after a few months due to writing and printing and then reading the cost could rocket. This would then render the author as being unrealistic and put off any further articles.

If that makes sense.

Les

 

[Martingchapman]

Les,
Yes your comment makes perfect sense and you are correct.
Anyone reading an article with the cost included would have to realise that one year, two years on etc. the costs will have changed.

However, I don't think that is a reason not to include costs, only a factor to take into account when deciding whether to build a project or not.

I would hope that readers would be sensible enough to accept the costs on face value and not look unfavorably on the author of the article just because inflation had rendered the cost out of date.

Martin.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I think it's helpful too. The only problem I can see is that I don't always know how much a job has cost! I might be buying for a couple of jobs at once or make a whole project out of timber I already have.

And finishing materials can be a lot of money. I've just spent over £100 on stain and lacquer for a library project, but I've not used it all by any means, so if I've used half of it, does that make it £50? No, because a) I've spent £100 and b) spending £50 wouldn't get me as much as I've used, because buying by the litre is much more expensive than buying by the 5 litre.

Incidentally, many years ago I made a dresser in cherry. I bought all the timber and it sat in our dining room (it has to acclimatize, dear) for a year whilst I made the dresser. The last piece to be made was the dresser top and I was one board short, so I had to go shopping again. The first lot cost me £1000 per cubic metre. The second board cost me over £2000 per cubic metre, doubling in just 12 months.

Whilst some articles I have written have gone straight in print the next month, others have waited a couple of years for the sun to shine upon them, so if you do find your costs significantly different from those of the author, please don't blame the writer, it may not be his fault!

 

[Martingchapman]

OK, I give up, bad idea.

 

[Steve Maskery]

OK, I give up, bad idea.

No, not at all! I think we are just adding caveats, that's all.
S

 

[mr]

How much the materials actually cost is irrelevant to a certain extent. But a cost the maker might expect to pay could be included easily enough.

Cheers Mike

 

[andy king]

Putting in a price on a project is an avenue we explored way back in GWW, myself and Pete Martin putting some ballpark costings on a few we made, but we were then inundated with calls from readers who couldn't buy at the prices we printed.
There's the problem. Demographics and suppliers vary the prices immensely. For example, South London Hardwoods quote 150x50 sapele at £9.19 per metre (+VAT) which puts it at well over £30 per cubic foot.
Our local supplier on the outskirts of Bath (Windebanks) where Pete and me used to source stuff quotes sapele at around £21 per cube +VAT.
Go to a merchant who has ties to marine work and you can find it is double the price(or more) . Robbins timber in Bristol quoted me £130 a cube for cherry about 3 years back!
We did toy with the idea of trawling around to get the costings and go with a cost close to top end, but the problem then is the magazine browsers, who's eye we hope to catch on the newstand with a project, will pick it up to get a gist of what is needed etc, see the cost of the timber and be scared off, and subsequently put the mag back down. Even with the prices we published, (which were above what we paid) we still had some feedback saying it was too expensive, so why can't we do pine ones etc, and also that it would be cheaper to buy a particular unit rather than make it, which are valid comments, but then you also get readers wondering why we can't put out projects like the American mags, but that's another story, resources and budget being one, but when their cherry is cheaper than our pine...
Unfortunately timber buying isn't like going to Tesco's where you can guarantee a tin of beans are 15p in Edinburgh or Exeter.
Just my 2p you understand...

Andy

EDIT: Forgot to add - Great mag Nick!

 

[ByronBlack]

As Slim mentioned, in my article of the Arts and Crafts table, I made sure I included details of where I sourced my wood and why, and the cost, it's something I think is generally a good idea but maybe not realistic for every project. For example, my next project is using timber that I have left over from a number of previous project so it's impossible to cost.