British Woodworking - Issue No.5

[Benchwayze]

I've read through the entire thread carefully, I know nothing of the personalities involved, nor have I read the magazine or any other WW magazines for many years.

My conclusions are that, based entirely on what has been written, that Lataxe has been unfairly treated by many of the posters to this thread. He has a point of view and he put it clearly and without insulting anyone. I think some of the responses, especially those parodying his screen-name, have been childish

If you haven't read the magazines or the articles, then how can you make a qualified observation on the 'rights' of Lataxe or quantify his opinion?

Yes there is a right to express an opinion, but there's also a 'right' way of doing it. Lataxe insulted a lot of people, and he deserved all he got.

Benchwayze.

 

[Benchwayze]

I would second that Mr Henderson. I have only read one issue of the magazine and found it was not for me . Lataxe's comments may have been interpreted as blunt, but are there any British magazines (other than F&C) that cater to anyone with higher aspirations than the average DIYer ?
Lataxe is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else and having enjoyed his posts on Knotts for a good while I can vouch that he does express an opinion as opposed to blindly following the rest of the sheep as is the case with so many forums. I for one am sorry to see him depart as its a range of viewpoints that makes for more interesting reading.

And I'll be darned if I will stand for being called an ''average DIY'er'.
Cheeky so and so.
Benchwayze.

 

[mister henderson]

If you haven't read the magazines or the articles, then how can you make a qualified observation on the 'rights' of Lataxe or quantify his opinion?

I don't need to read the magazines to comment on the discussion, not the magazines. I didn't offer any opinions about the magazines themselves nor would I, seeing as how I haven't read them

Yes there is a right to express an opinion, but there's also a 'right' way of doing it. Lataxe insulted a lot of people, and he deserved all he got.

Benchwayze.

I missed the actual insults, do I need to read it again, or did you read more into what he said than what he actually said?

 

[LarryS.]

Nick, I bought a subscription from you last week at Yandles. Have read the magazine and really enjoyed it. My feedback :

something other special interest magazines have is at the back a section giving review scores of equipment (when I bought a tv I went and bought one of those magazines purely for that section), maybe something you could have in the future (when the reviews / comparisons has built up a bit)

understand there is only so much space in the magazine itself, would be good to be able to get a bit more info on projects on-line (just extra pics or something), some things can be a bit hard to see in the mag on pictures covering everything

agree with a comment on another thread that it would be good to have a sketchup section (i'm just getting into using it and find it almost as interesting as the actual woodwork - but not quite !)

keep it up

as for all the other comments on the thread, I come to this forum to get away from stress and arguing (hope SWIMBO ain't gonna read this) !!

 

[Benchwayze]

If you haven't read the magazines or the articles, then how can you make a qualified observation on the 'rights' of Lataxe or quantify his opinion?

I don't need to read the magazines to comment on the discussion, not the magazines. I didn't offer any opinions about the magazines themselves nor would I, seeing as how I haven't read them

Yes there is a right to express an opinion, but there's also a 'right' way of doing it. Lataxe insulted a lot of people, and he deserved all he got.

Benchwayze.

I missed the actual insults, do I need to read it again, or did you read more into what he said than what he actually said?

If you missed the actual insults, you didn't read the entire thread as carefully as you maintained. I didn't read more into his comments than was there. Perhaps you should read it again. Or are you going to be busy making nesting -boxes?

Benchwayze.

 

[Gary M]

Some of the posters in this thread should be ashamed of themselves

Absolutely Pathetic and Very Childish

Practise what you preach.

 

[SP]

Totally agree. Very much a case of the mob attacking the few.
Grow up and accept that discussion groups are meant to invite differing opinions.

 

[Anonymous]

Totally agree. Very much a case of the mob attacking the few.
Grow up and accept that discussion groups are meant to invite differing opinions.

Sorry but I totally disagree. Mob? Attacking?
Discussion is one thing, insults are quite another. It is not hard to get a point across without being rude , with the lame excuse that the poster is being 'blunt'.

 

[Benchwayze]

Some of the posters in this thread should be ashamed of themselves

Absolutely Pathetic and Very Childish

Practise what (AS YE) you preach.

In what regard Gary?

Lataxe wasn't attacking me personally, but someone did make a point that readers of BW and similar woodwork magazines are little more than 'DIY'ers' . I have nothing against DIY'ers, but my expertise in woodworking is a little beyond that level. Thus, anyone who suggests I am no more than a DIY'er, because of the magazines I happen to read, insults me, and a specialist woodwork magazine.

Then, someone claims he has read the thread carefully, but didn't see the insult. So he obviously didn't read carefully enough. He should read it again; properly. Also, maybe you should read the thread again and feel insulted along with a few more of us.

If you didn't read the thread, then my advice is make no comment until you have. Especially please don't label us as childish, because we try to defend ourselves against someone who attacks our integrity because we don't happen to read F&C or FW.


Regards
BW

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Nick, I bought a subscription from you last week at Yandles. Have read the magazine and really enjoyed it. My feedback :

something other special interest magazines have is at the back a section giving review scores of equipment (when I bought a tv I went and bought one of those magazines purely for that section), maybe something you could have in the future (when the reviews / comparisons has built up a bit)

understand there is only so much space in the magazine itself, would be good to be able to get a bit more info on projects on-line (just extra pics or something), some things can be a bit hard to see in the mag on pictures covering everything

agree with a comment on another thread that it would be good to have a sketchup section

As the bloke who introduced scores to woodworking magazines 16 years ago it's ironic that I've now moved away from them. We've only used them sparingly in British Woodworking, for the table router test and destruction testing screws, when they were used in conjunction with measured ratings, largely (but not entirely) related to objective testing. I've found that we can offer a more considered and relevant approach without scores. Take for instance the Record tablesaw we tested a few issues ago. I think this is, in principle, an excellent piece of kit for a small workshop. It has many great features, but some drawbacks as well, many of which can be easily overcome by the owner. How, though, does one score such an item? In some ways having to asign a rating actually diminishes one's ability to give an honest appraisal of the kit, because you are left having to justify your score.

But I understand that such ratings are useful for comparisons when you are setting up a workshop. As our range of items tested increases so we'll be able to give wider comparisons. I'm hoping, though, that British Woodworking will be able to help readers come to their own conclusions by explaining the benefits of the various features you get, rather than simply saying which is best. In some simple cases that is certainly possible, but for a tablesaw you need a much wider analysis that outlines the pros and cons for all sorts of circumstances.

In the case of projects etc.. online, please watch this space. The first few issues of British Woodworking are very much the first steps on a long journey, and we have every intention of using whatever media we can to help woodworkers. We want to encourage as many new woodworkers as possible, and once our website is running more efficiently (I've had to do all the design, formating etc... work on it so far myself from my spare room) we'll do some great stuff, I hope.

Watch this space, also, for SketchUp lessons and information. It is a fantastic piece of software that can help so many woodworkers.

Thanks for the feedback. It was good to meet you at Yandles. I'm always open to woodworkers offering their perspective. Sometimes you get so close to the magazine, and have so little time in the workshop, that you forget what's essential.

Cheers

Nick

 

[mister henderson]

If you haven't read the magazines or the articles, then how can you make a qualified observation on the 'rights' of Lataxe or quantify his opinion?

I don't need to read the magazines to comment on the discussion, not the magazines. I didn't offer any opinions about the magazines themselves nor would I, seeing as how I haven't read them

Yes there is a right to express an opinion, but there's also a 'right' way of doing it. Lataxe insulted a lot of people, and he deserved all he got.

Benchwayze.

I missed the actual insults, do I need to read it again, or did you read more into what he said than what he actually said?

If you missed the actual insults, you didn't read the entire thread as carefully as you maintained. I didn't read more into his comments than was there. Perhaps you should read it again. Or are you going to be busy making nesting -boxes?

Benchwayze.

Nope, I didn't miss anything. Perhaps you had better quote the part that you found to be insulting, although I gather from your other comments that your definition of insult is very wide.

 

[woodbloke]

Alan Jones wrote:

to anyone with higher aspirations than the average DIYer ?

In common with others, I've been giving this little post a bit of considered thought and have decided that that this is an affront to my capabilities and those of very many others on this forum. Whilst there are areas of DIY where I consider myself to be avarage, woodwork is not one of them and that is evident for many others on the forum...I hope you wouldn't describe Mr C as an avarage DIYer when it came to woodwork. Grumpily :x - Rob

 

[Anonymous]

Mod note:

OK

Please stop discussing insults etc. and move back to a discussion of the magazine - it would be a shame to have to lock this thread if it gets too personal

 

[Nick Gibbs]

I couldn't agree more, Alan. I don't think the readers of British Woodworking are 'average DIYers' (whatever that means), and from my experience they have aspiration and ambition to improve their woodworking and enjoy it even more. I really hope we can overcome the tendency to belittle people whose woodworking ability isn't as great as others, and to share a passion for wood and woodwork in all its forms. That is certainly what we aim to do in the magazine, by covering a range of techniques, projects and ideas as diverse as setting up your first bandsaw in Wood School to discussing Richard Sennett's philosophical book The Craftsman in an interview with Robert Ingham. Coming up soon is a piece about making a computer-powered routing device, an interview with the planemaker Bill Carter, some SketchUp tips and a piece on making a model sailing boat from a kit, plus an item on making your first bench for £40. The topics are wide-ranging, I hope the writing is good, and the enthusiasm is as genuine as the Forum.

Cheers

Nick

 

[kityuser]

I`ve read this thread from start to finish.

and quite frankly am gobsmacked, My heart sinks, you know what........I thought better of this forum.

just my 2 Ps worth.

Steve

 

[Benchwayze]

Nope, I didn't miss anything. Perhaps you had better quote the part that you found to be insulting, although I gather from your other comments that your definition of insult is very wide.

If I called you a pompous ***, without knowing you, which of course I don't, then I would be insulting you. Would that definition be narrow enough for you?

Just go read it again and put yourself in the place of the person Letaxe was criticising and than tell me you wouldn't feel insulted. If you answer in the negative then you must have skin like the proverbial Rhino.

BW

 

[Benchwayze]

Mr Henderson,
This is taken from the post by Letaxe that started the controversy. He was talking about BW magazine. I have emboldened some sections so you can see what you apparently missed. The italics are mine.

(I think Letaxe could profit from studying a good English textbook himself. Woefully amateurish? 'Woefully' is a redundant adjective, an 'ly' word; not liked by the academics. We'll put that aside, as this isn't a place to discuss grammar, syntax and so on. However Letaxe did 'throw the first punch'! )

He said:

* The writing style is woefully amateurish, with poor syntax and sudden lurches from one thing to another. (That is criticism yes, but it's also INSULTING) Everything is both hard to read and very sparse in hard information. There is too much "look at my chatty personality", which is OK for forums but not for good quality magazine articles. The worst aspect is the inability to explain things, which are blithely skimmed over. The author knows what he means therefore so should we, seems to be the attitude - all too common in British WW publications.

* The furniture-making articles are mostly (and sadly) of the "simple pine stuff" standard. (Another insult to the magazine staff, because it is just not true.) As to the thing to hold a ball of string! This so encourages low standards and feeble ambitions. (Does this encourage low standards? Not necessarily. It is a project for a beginner maybe. So there's another ill-considered remark that could be taken as an insult.)And what of that half-finished article about a book cover!? Just as well, I suppose, as I'd rather darn a sock.

(I hope he is good with a needle, because his own syntax is somewhat poor.)
------------------------------------------------------------

Mike C answered:

Steve Maskery and Nick Gibbs amateurish?

Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I am to stunned for words

Is it still April 1st by any chance?

IMHO British Woodworking has got better with each issue and I certainly do not think there is anything amateurish about it. Well done Nick and excellent feature Steve

From what I hear and soon to find out Steves tip about mitre saw dust extraction was worth the price of the mag

----------------------------------------------------------------

Try to Turn said:

Well I enjoyed reading this months BWW. I find it informative and it caters very well for my current level of experience.

Sounds to me that as Lataxe is such a good woodworker, that the projects featured are below him and his english is so brilliant he should be contributing to the magazine, with an article so advanced it makes all us mear mortals heads spin. Of course the syntax, language and grammar would be faultless in every way too. (by the way i'm sure mine is not but i don't particularly care!)

I think this phrase will cover my feelings

If you don't like it don't b****y buy it.
_________________

Slim said:
Lataxe,

It might be nice for you to at least introduce yourself, before you start belittling and insulting our members. (Yes, Steve Maskery and Nick Gibbs are members here as well.)
_________________
Cheers
Simon
---------------------------------------------------------------

I won't go on. I'd be here all day cutting and pasting. But as I said, had you been the target of this conceited and destructive critique I believe you might have found it insulting. If not then, as I said, you must be somewhat thick-skinned.

Now I am off to my shop to make some 'pine thingies'; in English walnut this time though.

No more response on this from me.
BW

 

[Nick Gibbs]

I am fortunately hard-skinned these days. But I did cringe at being described as 'amateurish'.

Having edited magazines for 20 years it's obviously not factually correct, and if it's meant as an insult it's demeaning of amateurs.

I tend to agree with James Krenov, who wrote about the 'impractical but dedicated amateur... who is an idealist who wants to survive to have the chance to work with wood, but not at the price of having woodworking become something less than he hoped it would be'. Krenov spoke about amateurs 'enjoying' their woodwork, and I for one would prefer to be amateur if the price is no longer enjoying my time in the workshop. And in a funny way the same is true of editing magazines. In my experience, woodworkers who don't earn their living by their work are often (though far from always) the most open to new ideas, and sometimes have the luxury of being able to push the limits of our craft further and further.

The pine bit is clearly wrong, because we've only featured a couple of projects that are made from softwood, one of which was Steve Maskery's excellent office unit in the latest issue, and Bill Newton's intriguing coffee table in BW02.

So be it.

Cheers

Nick

 

[OPJ]

I'm disappointed to see that regular members are now arguing amongst themselves over this! Lataxe is gone (or, reading over this right now, laughing to himself...). We all have our own opinions and know where each one of us stands. Let's leave it at that, please!!

Where were we... Only one month until the next issue - we're halfway there!

 

[wizer]

I'm disappointed to see that regular members are now arguing amongst themselves over this! Lataxe is gone (or, reading over this right now, laughing to himself...). We all have our own opinions and know where each one of us stands. Let's leave it at that, please!!

Seconded (said with tongue firmly bitten)