Bringing goods from the EU

[Chippyofftheoldblock]

Whatever happens just get on with it, I remember before the EU was formed and importing/exporting all ran smoothly, we had the British overseas trade board who could sort anything out immediately and for free, in-fact it was easier for me before EU, I imported from Germany, USA and France, doddle, but no doubt our government will make it as bureaucratic as hell, they seem to have forgotten the words Civil and Service, which they used to be.
Interestingly, my suppliers from Italy, Germany and China have all been falling over themselves to ensure we continue buying and Italy have now undercut China on one of the products we have made, never thought that would happen, another supplier has offered to reduce price to compensate for any import duty, maybe we are more important than we think to overseas suppliers.
These are my views and what I personally have found, others may have different experiences.

 

[Jacob]

Eh? You misunderstood my point.

I meant that any divergence from a particular agreement with the EU or any member will be entirely up to them to choose, accept, reject. They can agree on things amongst themselves but we won't be party to the decision making.

 

[Jake]

it's not so much that we are following laws written by the EU as much as we are following laws written largely by ourselves.

That's a little overstated probably, it's a multi-layered and consensual.process, but no doubt that we used to be highly influential. A big kernel of truth in that all the same.

 

[Rorschach]

I meant that any divergence from a particular agreement with the EU or any member will be entirely up to them to choose, accept, reject. They can agree on things amongst themselves but we won't be party to the decision making.

Yes, and the problem with that is? That's exactly how we deal with the rest of the world when trading.

 

[Rorschach]

That's a little overstated probably, it's a multi-layered and consensual.process, but no doubt that we used to be highly influential. A big kernel of truth in that all the same.

Oh yes I was simplifying to make the point that following certain EU laws isn't all that unusual or expected since we had a large say in how they were written in the first place.
It's been suggested (convincingly so in my view) that the reason so much of the public sector was highly pro-EU is because it allowed them to get legislation put in place that would never have been accepted by the UK public and passed by parliament otherwise. The EU were a handy scapegoat for unpopular legislation and it was almost impossible for the voting public to do anything about it since MEP's have almost no power to write or amend legislation.

 

[Jonm]

That document was published on 17th December 2020. The UK/EU Free Trade Agreement was not agreed until 23rd December.

If I were you, I'd wait until the document was updated to reflect the provisions of the latest agreement before drawing too many firm conclusions. Quite a lot of 'No Deal' planning was done, of which I assume the provisions set out in the 17th December document were a part.

Going back to the original post. The trade deal is about tariffs and quotas.

The government document dated 17 December is about returning from abroad and what you can bring in to the country without paying uk taxes, also note the comment about “You will also have to pay VAT at the standard UK rates”.

The document is current and will apply from tomorrow. Whilst it may be amended in the future I cannot see there will be a fundamental change in principle, we are out of the single market and customs union, bringing goods in to the uk will require the payment of uk taxes on entry. The fact that you have already paid duty in the EU is irrelevant. Perhaps the EU will allow a rebate scheme for uk travellers which I recall Austria doing many years ago.

 

[Jacob]

Yes, and the problem with that is? That's exactly how we deal with the rest of the world when trading.

The problem with that is we now may get worse deals as non participating members with no voting rights. Leave a club means giving up the privileges.
We also lose the joint power of the EU to negotiate, particularly with the big ones China USA. EU will strike deals which won't include us.
Surely you know this, we've been saying it for 5 years!!!

 

[Jacob]

....
It's been suggested (convincingly so in my view) that the reason so much of the public sector was highly pro-EU is because it allowed them to get legislation put in place that would never have been accepted by the UK public and passed by parliament otherwise. ....

Which legislation did you have in mind?

 

[Rorschach]

The problem with that is we now may get worse deals as non participating members with no voting rights. Leave a club means giving up the privileges.
We also lose the joint power of the EU to negotiate, particularly with the big ones China USA. EU will strike deals which won't include us.
Surely you know this, we've been saying it for 5 years!!!

Of course I know that.

 

[Jonm]

Going back to the original post. The trade deal is about tariffs and quotas.

The government document dated 17 December is about returning from abroad and what you can bring in to the country without paying uk taxes, also note the comment about “You will also have to pay VAT at the standard UK rates”.

The document is current and will apply from tomorrow. Whilst it may be amended in the future I cannot see there will be a fundamental change in principle, we are out of the single market and customs union, bringing goods in to the uk will require the payment of uk taxes on entry. The fact that you have already paid duty in the EU is irrelevant. Perhaps the EU will allow a rebate scheme for uk travellers which I recall Austria doing many years ago.

Looking at it again I think that the section on “allowance for other goods” and the wording

• is 2.5% for goods worth up to £630
• depends on the type of goods if they’re worth more than £630

this may be affected by the trade deal as I think it is about tariffs. The bit about paying VAT I think will stay.

 

[RobinBHM]

I suppose what amateur woodworkers want to know is:

1. Will it become more difficult, more expensive to order tools etc from European suppliers?

2. Will it become more expensive to buy European made tools and materials from UK businesses.

 

[Rorschach]

I suppose what amateur woodworkers want to know is:

1. Will it become more difficult, more expensive to order tools etc from European suppliers?

2. Will it become more expensive to buy European made tools and materials from UK businesses.

We'll find out. In the short term, probably yes to both, if for nothing else than uncertainty and bureaucracy. In the longer term, I suspect it will be almost impossible to tell if any price rises are linked to Brexit or other factors, especially given the C19 situation.

 

[sploo]

I suppose what amateur woodworkers want to know is:

1. Will it become more difficult, more expensive to order tools etc from European suppliers?

2. Will it become more expensive to buy European made tools and materials from UK businesses.

I'm currently trying to buy some (not specifically woodworking related) kit from a vendor in Denmark, and despite being literally hours away from the new rules they tell me they still haven't been given clear information on what those rules will be. I suppose this is the consequence of promising the country an impossible utopia, then having to actually deliver something (meaning you've had to mostly make it up as you go along, and backtrack on most of your promises).

I guess it'll all become clear in time, but the very fact we're at this point in without businesses having a clear understanding of the new rules is absolutely farcical. Though I guess that's in keeping with the rest of the sh!tshow we've been living through for the last few years.

 

[sploo]

We'll find out. In the short term, probably yes to both, if for nothing else than uncertainty and bureaucracy. In the longer term, I suspect it will be almost impossible to tell if any price rises are linked to Brexit or other factors, especially given the C19 situation.

Going from zero bureaucracy when shipping to/from the UK to "some" (probably as yet unknown) bureaucracy will unquestionably add to costs. Even a couple of minutes of checks per lorry is causing huge tailbacks - it all has an impact at scale.

For larger vendors it's likely it'll get swalled up in other costs; such that it may be hard to quantify the impact on individual sales. For smaller companies it will likely be a bigger hit on their costs.

 

[brocher]

If you listen to some former MEP's you will find that a lot of EU law was written with a great deal (possibly a large majority) of UK input, so it's not so much that we are following laws written by the EU as much as we are following laws written largely by ourselves. Therefore it would make sense that, in the short term at least, we would continue to go down that path. The difference now of course is that we can choose to diverge in the future (if we want to).

But of course for UK manufacturers they must still use EU standards in order to sell into the common market otherwise their products won’t be allowed. And if the UK creates a new standard for entering other global markets then this is a double or triple cost for them! Cant see the sense of diverging from EU standards at all

 

[Rorschach]

But of course for UK manufacturers they must still use EU standards in order to sell into the common market otherwise their products won’t be allowed. And if the UK creates a new standard for entering other global markets then this is a double or triple cost for them! Cant see the sense of diverging from EU standards at all

Of course, if you intend to export to country you must produce a product that they will buy. This is true the world over. The reverse will be true as well for EU countries wanting to export to us.

 

[dfps]

I have a micro digger and 4x4 mini dumper at a property in France that I took over last year.
I have little in the way of proof that I took them over from the UK on the ferry on a trailer apart from some random photos of the machine in the UK and the machine on a trailer prior to leaving so am a bit concerned how I would fair when I have to bring them back to the UK sometime later this year after Brexit !

Bit niche I supposed but other people must have similar large equipment or tooling in the EU that they took over from the UK ?

Anyone ?

 

[sploo]

But of course for UK manufacturers they must still use EU standards in order to sell into the common market otherwise their products won’t be allowed. And if the UK creates a new standard for entering other global markets then this is a double or triple cost for them! Cant see the sense of diverging from EU standards at all

Exactly. This has been 100% the case since day one. Even if a future UK standard was "better" it would still make sense for a UK made product to conform to the standards that are used across the widest possible market.

The difference (of course) now is that we don't have a say in the future direction of those EU standards. Winners all round

 

[Jacob]

...

The difference (of course) now is that we don't have a say in the future direction of those EU standards. Winners all round

Yebbut we've still got the navy. Remember Dunkirk!

 

[sploo]

Of course, if you intend to export to country you must produce a product that they will buy. This is true the world over. The reverse will be true as well for EU countries wanting to export to us.

Yes, but given the relative size of the UK market vs the rest of the EU block, it may well be cheaper to say "made to EU standards only" (and accept the loss of UK sales) rather than take on the costs of meeting an extra standard purely to sell into only one extra market.

Certainly for smaller vendors the paperwork alone may make it pointless.