branded vs diy router plane vs old womans tooth

[Dokkodo]

I dont have any of the above, but there have been an increasing number of occasions where I would have liked something that performs that task.

I cant decide whether spending 30 quid on some new cutters and making my own is worth it... there are some good tutorials about but im not totally sold. Second hand they dont seem to go particularly cheap (as that recent thread makes pretty clear!), and i dont have a great deal (any at all) of spare cash at the moment. If going down that route, an OWT looks a lot simpler to make, but are they in the same league?

sorry i'm basically just offloading my indecision here! any advice appreciated

 

[Fitzroy]

I tried the Paul Sellers trick of a chisel through an angled hole, and whilst it proved the concept I could not get it to work/adjust appropriately. I ended up biting the bullet and paid the going rate on eBay, having missed a couple of bargains on local Gumtree.

The stanley 71 off eBay came with the three cutters but they were in a dreadful state and took some effort, and jig making, to get a straight and level edge. However now it’s fettled to my level of precision I’d not be without it. Makes simple work of a number of tasks.

One thing I’ve noticed is I often drop the cutting edge by 1/8th or even a 1/16th of a turn, and any hand tool would IMHO need to be similarly accurate in its adjustment.

Fitz.

 

[marcros]

I don't have one of these, but I was recently looking for a Stanley 66. For a small premium over the eBay price I managed to get a Veritas. I personally think that Veritas do offer some improvements rather than just copying the originals. You have to decide whether it is worth the premium and also how often you will use it. I can see myself using the 66 regularly. If it was for occasional use then it may be different.

 

[StraightOffTheArk]

It depends on what you want it for - I made an OWT router from plans in Charles Haywoods book on making hand tools. It does everything I need it to. I am thinking of making one with a 'bent' cutter as I think it'll give a better finish and be a bit easier to use, also it's possible to add a screw adjuster if precise depths are needed. I don't use it very often but am very glad of it when I do. Personally, as they're fairly straightforward to make, and especially if money is an issue, I'd make one and then, if you find it won't do everything you need it to, make another one that will. I use woodie plough plane cutters in mine - happy to post you a couple if you do make one and can't get any.

Tara a bit,

SOTA

 

[scooby]

Paul Sellers method is a temporary method, it works ok but once you need to remove the chisel to sharpen it wont refit as tightly.
Its pretty difficult to find a record or Stanley at a reasonable on ebay. Online second hand tool sellers also charge a premium. Paul Sellers is widely credited/blamed for increasing prices.
I'm not sure how expensive they were in the past but back when I was at college during a joinery apprenticeship, the workshop had plenty of every type of tool but only 4 router planes to go among 20 apprentices. :?
I still don't get why Quangsheng/Juuma/Wood River/Luban, etc hasn't jumped in with a large router plane priced between the silly ebay/online Stanley/Record prices and brand new Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen.

Its definitely a niche tool, does its intended job brilliantly but I still feel they are overpriced. I've got a closed throat Lie Nielsen and I enjoy using it. But those uses aren't very frequent and most of the time I wish I hadn't spend that much.

 

[AndyT]

I have a nice Stanley 71. I also have an old woman's tooth style router - an old one which takes a plough plane iron of whatever breadth you want.

I really like the Stanley with its fine, controllable depth of cut. Progressively lowering the cutter a shaving at a time is practical and effective.

With the owt, I don't think you'd want to do that - I've not had the patience to. I think the practical way to use one is to get almost all the wood removed with a chisel and take a few final swipes with the owt to level off the bottom. This can mean that you tilt the sole a bit at first if you've left too much, but that's about it for adjusting on the fly.

Of course, it's worth remembering that in most ordinary furniture making, housings are shallow and hidden by other parts, so a beautiful smooth finish is not required.

 

[Dokkodo]

thanks for the thoughts

as i suspected, sounds like an OWT is the robin reliant to the router planes jaguar? they do the same job... but with differing levels of finesse... guess the clue is kind of in the name!

i have had a memory of trying the chisel thing once and being dissatisfied, apparently enough to throw it away immediately and forget about it until now, but i might give it another chance, thanks for the very kind offer SOTA, in the mean time i think ill start saving my pennies

 

[lurker]

You can make cutters by grinding old Allen keys.
Not sure what others think, but I only ever used one cutter width anyway.

Someone here made a beautiful router plane quite recently and posted a wip.

 

[lapjoint]

I cant decide whether spending 30 quid on some new cutters and making my own is worth it...

If you go that route of making your own plane, I would consider using the Veritas cutters. They are relatively cheap (17 Euros where I live, probably similar in GBP), and at that price point I would not bother grinding down Allen keys. Also, if at some later point you upgrade to a Stanley 71 or a Veritas router, you can continue using those irons.

These irons have a diamond shape; that should make it quite easy, too, to guide them in a home-made router body.

Regards,
Christoph

 

[ED65]

I cant decide whether spending 30 quid on some new cutters and making my own is worth it... there are some good tutorials about but im not totally sold.

Wellll, making a workable router can be a doddle so no need for indecision

The old wowan's tooth is simple enough to make and can require no mortising if you adopt the build-up method rather than starting with a solid block. The subsequent glue joint can be stronger than the wood so no worries about that being a weak spot; use sufficient glue and eat your Weetabix before tightening the clamps and you're golden.

The type with an angled cutter can also avoid any mortising task because a drilled hole can become the channel for the cutter if you use an Allen key. The Hayward book has a design utilising a stock commercial cutter but a built-up construction so no mortising is needed, just a chiselled channel, but then compensates for that simplification by featuring completely unnecessary tapered-dovetail housing joints for the back supports :lol:

Regardless of the type of router you're building Allen keys can provide workable cutters at minimal cost, potentially free if your stock of Allen keys is fairly typical and includes a few duplicates!

Even with cheap ones the steel can be decent enough to use. I don't know that you can always expect a better class of Allen key to be hardened much more because like any screwdriver you don't want them too hard. You can subsequently harden the business end of your Allen key easily enough at home if you felt the need, but many find the stock hardness gives acceptable edge retention (this will be especially true if you largely use the tool cross-grain where the wood puts up so much less resistance).

 

[ED65]

I tried the Paul Sellers trick of a chisel through an angled hole, and whilst it proved the concept I could not get it to work/adjust appropriately.

I think there's some luck involved with these. I've used the poor-man's router a couple of times. I lucked out the first time and got a usable tool but it's not easy to get a hole just the right diameter for a given chisel unless you have a good selection of bits to pick from. They are hardly a long-term solution, I don't think I've ever managed to make one that lasted much more than a single project, and sometimes less than that, but still given the need I'd prefer to have one than not.

Not his trick BTW! Like a lot of the things he presents as "the Paul Sellers XXXXX" this isn't something he came up with. I don't recall if he actually claimed that he did in this case, but anyway the idea actually long predates him.

One thing I’ve noticed is I often drop the cutting edge by 1/8th or even a 1/16th of a turn, and any hand tool would IMHO need to be similarly accurate in its adjustment.

Hand routers can be tap-adjusted with paper shims under the nose or sides to give very precise, repeatable adjustment.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I still don't get why Quangsheng/Juuma/Wood River/Luban, etc hasn't jumped in with a large router plane priced between the silly ebay/online Stanley/Record prices and brand new Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen.

Its definitely a niche tool, does its intended job brilliantly but I still feel they are overpriced. I've got a closed throat Lie Nielsen and I enjoy using it. But those uses aren't very frequent and most of the time I wish I hadn't spend that much.

The 'small' one they do is pretty good (I'd say half way between the Veritas Router Plane and its medium-sized sister)...

https://www.workshopheaven.com/quangshe ... plane.html
https://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-router-plane-701927
https://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-med ... e-ax946656

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

I've not tried an OWT but based on wanting something more accurately adjustable I decided to spend some time making something nice but also practical...

the-keeper-router-plane-wip-t109785.html

I cant properly compare the performance of mine to the veritas as I've only briefly tried it in Axminster, but I'm very pleased with the performance of the one i made. Does everything i ask of it, it's accurately adjustable with exactly 1mm per turn of the adjustment knob and it's stable. And if i ever needed it to be more stable over a wider distance then could always just attach a temporary larger base (metal/stable wood/ or even clear acrylic). Best of all is the satisfaction that comes from accomplishing a task after using a tool you made

Oh, and if you decide to make your own i can highly recommend the Veritas cutters

 

[lurker]

I've not tried an OWT but based on wanting something more accurately adjustable I decided to spend some time making something nice but also practical...

the-keeper-router-plane-wip-t109785.html

I cant properly compare the performance of mine to the veritas as I've only briefly tried it in Axminster, but I'm very pleased with the performance of the one i made. Does everything i ask of it, it's accurately adjustable with exactly 1mm per turn of the adjustment knob and it's stable. And if i ever needed it to be more stable over a wider distance then could always just attach a temporary larger base (metal/stable wood/ or even clear acrylic). Best of all is the satisfaction that comes from accomplishing a task after using a tool you made

Oh, and if you decide to make your own i can highly recommend the Veritas cutters

That's the one I was thinking of, very nice MG!

 

[Dokkodo]

Well that settles it, im going to make one! think i will buy cutters in but i may well have a pop at some old allen keys too, just to see how that goes!

thats a great WIP sawdust, and the shape you went for reminded me of an odd piece of metal i have in my box of collected metal things, which might be just the starting point i need. watch this space, my first ever WIP may follow...

 

[ED65]

This is the simplest published design I think:

You can simplify this even further by ditching the threaded insert (and, if you trust your glue joints, both wood screws). You can modify the locking thumscrew/machine screw so that it taps the hole, or simply force threads into the wood which is supposed to create stronger threading.

In either case if need be you can reinforce the wood in the hole by dribbling in a little superglue. Um, be sure to let it go off before turning the screw back in!

For something posher, if you feel the need once you use the above, look up John Wilson's "$5 router plane". There's a PDF of the full article he wrote for Popular Woodworking back in 2005 on their site I think. A lot of the homemade routers out there online are virtually the same shape and would seem to be based on Wilson's one because of this early publication date, but actually the profile is somewhat traditional and I think the basic design goes back to some much earlier commercial offerings.

 

[Dokkodo]

that looks great too, now theres no excuse!

i dug out my lump of metal, its was a mechanical part of something. youll see what i mean that it lends itself to the router plane form. ive got some spare time tomorrow, so ill see what i can transform it into. Needs a v-groove for the cutter, im thinking of those u-shaped bolts with two nuts (sometimes used to join steel wire rope) perhaps to hold the cutter, another tapped hole for depth stop bolt, and a nice wooden sole. knobs off the sole probably... having had a look around for veritas cutters, seems they are out of stock everywhere, so i'll give a large allen key a go for now. will report back!

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

Good luck to you with your build, and please keep a WIP (everyone loves a good WIP)

FYI, cheapest place that i’m aware of for new Veritas tools is canadiantools.co.uk...

https://www.canadiantools.co.uk/product ... ter-plane/

 

[Osvaldd]

Im a novice weekend woodworker and stanley 71 is out of the question for me, a chisel in a block of wood works surprisingly well if you have the patience.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

There is a build and plan for a router plane on my website (using Veritas blades): http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... Plane.html

Regards from Perth

Derek