box and hinges

[Benchwayze]

Stef...
I take it you are fitting a butt-hinge in traditional fashion to your box.

There is a definite and foolproof way of doing this and I'll do my best to explain here. The tools you will need are:

A marking-gauge
A try square
A suitably sized chisel (or hand-router, or Granny's Tooth) and maybe a dovetail saw, to establish the cross grain limits of the housing. You can use a sharp chisel and mallet to establish this dimension. If the hinges are wide, make a series of cross-grain cuts across the width of the hinge housing before removing material to establish depth.

To start, the marking gauge should be set from the dead centre of the butt hinge-pin to the outer limit of its closed width. This establishes the width of the hinge rebate or housing. Mark this on your stock.

The depth of the housing must also suit the hinge so use the hinge itself to mark this, again taking the centre of the hinge-pin as datum so the same amount of material is removed from lid and box. (Taking into consideration the width of your pencil lead.)

Good quality butt hinges are tapered in thickness from the pin to the outer edge. So the housing has to be sloped from front to rear. The width of your housing is obvious and will depend on the distance from the centre of the hinge pin to the outer edge of the hinge. The housings must be the same in the lid and the box edges and must start at the same distance in from the outer edges of the box.

The depth is critical to prevent binding or gaping of the lid when you try to close the lid. If you don't get it right first time it's a fiddle, but not impossible. At worst you might find it necessary to replace material you've cut away with veneer or codge with thin card. (That's up to you.) At best you will have to shave away more material to get the depth right.

Do you still wish to use butt-hinges? If you do, then read a good text on their fitting in addition to the above. Practice by hinging two pieces of scrap timber, until you are confident. If not, fit surface ‘H’ hinges, of brass and use the appropriate screws. The effect will be the same. A neat looking box.
I hope I haven't missed anything. If so, can I suggest Joyce's treatise on cabinet making? The procedure will be in there, if you can't follow my ramblings. Good Luck

Regards
John

 

[PaulO]

The first difficulty is cutting the mortises in the same position left to right on the base and lid. Ed's method deals with that.

I tend to cut the mortises shallower than necessary at first.

If the mortises are accurately postioned, then just place the hinge leaf in the tight mortise. Then using a birdcage awl,or something with a small sharp point, mark the points for the pilot holes. I aim to offset these holes slightly (maybe .2mm) towards the center of the box. This means that as you tighten the screws you should be forcing the hinge into the mortise. Make sure you mark each leaf and rebate to ensure it stays in the same place.

Drill pilot holes, run steel screw down hole, then fit the hinge with brass screws. At this point you should have a lid that closes, accurately left to right and front to back. But as you left the mortise too shallow, the gap at the back will be larger than at the front. This is the bit that takes me time. I then gradually pare the mortises down until satisfied with the fit. Revisit the box in a year and a different season and you might want to add a *** paper under the hinge to even the gap.

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi PaulO,

I like the way you do this.

Please... No criticism is meant here but my only issue is the gap between lid and box.

It helps if the centre-line of the hinge-pin is in line with the outer edges of box and lid. Dead-on and there might be binding. A slight adjustment will have them as close as is practical, without showing a large gap between lid and box, when the lid is open.

It's a matter of suck it and see at times, but it can be done.

Regards
John

 

[stef]

Hi Rob,

I had to chuckle at this language of ours and the way we interpret what forum members are saying.

Hi John - indeed the language on the forums is generally always going to be a problem, but Stef said..."it's a smartish box, not a rough chest, so the hinges cant be screwed on the rear face, with screw heads showing.
the hinges have to be placed between the lid and box edges, at the back, in the usual fashion"...which I interpreted to mean that surface mounted hinges usually fitted with domed heads were not acceptable for this project - Rob

Well, thanks guys,
plenty of advice here. i like the double sided tape idea, but also the more acurate morticing approach.
I'll definitely have a go at this.
Rob is right though, i definitely want the hinges as described in the last 2 posts.. the hard way !
i also have the furniture making book by joyce (i think that's the one anyway) so i'll have a look in there too.
pictures will of course follow !

 

[motownmartin]

Hi PaulO,

I like the way you do this.

Please... No criticism is meant here but my only issue is the gap between lid and box.

It helps if the centre-line of the hinge-pin is in line with the outer edges of box and lid. Dead-on and there might be binding. A slight adjustment will have them as close as is practical, without showing a large gap between lid and box, when the lid is open.

It's a matter of suck it and see at times, but it can be done.

Regards
John

John I may be wrong but I think these are stop hinges and have to be like that else the lid wont open at all, these hinges are designed to open only as far as 95 deg, the knuckle is actually square.

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Martin,

You are quite right. Old eyes I fear. Ididn't see the angle in the first pic!



If I want to limit the opening of a lid, I use a stay or stay-hinges, which are a different kettle of oysters anyhow!

Cheers!

 

[woodbloke]

Hi Martin,

You are quite right. Old eyes I fear. Ididn't see the angle in the first pic!



If I want to limit the opening of a lid, I use a stay or stay-hinges, which are a different kettle of oysters anyhow!

Cheers!

John - it can also be done by planing a couple of mitres (lid and base) along the rear of the box where the hinges are and then setting the hinge pin at the point were the mitres meet - Rob