Bolshy 'employee'

[RogerS]

OK - not strictly an employee but a 19 year old who is paid by me to help me with my renovation project.

He started off well...good work ethos but lately is bugging the hell out of me..just standing there rather than using his initiative and either doing one of the myriad of tasks that needs doing or asking me what I want him to do. And - OK I accept that maybe I need to spell out everything to him, in great detail, twice but he's got an NVQ in Carpentry/Joinery so that should count for something? Shouldn't it? Nor am I running an apprenticeship scheme. Just a simple paid by the week job.

Today, I asked him to trim up a housing in an oak beam. I noticed that he was using his chisel against the grain and it was getting breaking out. So I explained to him (quite calmly and reasonably) the difference between going with the grain and against it (at least I think I'm right in this...pls see t'other post on this) and thought that I'd implied that I'd prefer him to chisel with the grain. To my surprise he carried on going against the grain and breakout continued.

I said 'Pete..why are you still going against the grain?'.

His reply 'It's my chisel and I'll use it how I want to'

'Well, in which case I'd rather do it myself' I replied and reached for his chisel to which he replied that he'd prefer it if I didn't use his chisel.

John (my other assistant) stepped in and offered me the use of his chisel and we moved on.

My immediate thoughts are that Pete should go. Soon. Or am I overreacting and that this is what I should expect from a 19 year old?

 

[Smudger]

Before you boot him, take him aside for a proper chat. Explain your point of view and see how he reacts - and if you still aren't happy replace him. 19 isn't a very graceful age!

 

[Woodmagnet]

You are the employer Roger, if he won't do a job the way you want it done, get rid of him. :wink: He would'nt last long anywhere with that attitude so don't feel sorry for him. :wink:

 

[tim]

Both points above seem fair.

Everyone can have a bad day but if its more than just the odd thing then it may be best to part ways.

There will come a point (if not already) when you will stop trusting him to do anything unsupervised and if thats the case then he is wasting his and your time and your money.

I do think it would be worth having a chat and finding out whats gone wrong. If its just that he's bored or doesn't feel rewarded by what he's doing then it would be best to part ways sooner rather than later. It could be something simple though like perceived competition between your assistants etc which may be resolvable or not.

Either way you'll know what to do rather than possibly wondering after you've fired him whether there was something that could have been done to keep him.


Hope it sorts itself out soon.

Cheers

Tim

 

[andy king]

Hi Roger,

One thing that was always instilled in me was that a tradesman's tools were sacrosanct, you never used another mans tools without his permission, especially edge tools.
I've seen a few guys really lose it if someone had used a chisel or plane and chipped them!
Even so, in this situation you seem to have a 19 year old who either knows everything, knows nothing, or is not interested in learning, or a combination of 1&3!
When I was 19, if I had that attitude i'd be dangled of a scaffold by my feet! :shock: :lol:
Problem is, we have to mollycoddle everyone now, and if they step out of line or get bolshy you can't dicipline them by threats of losing their job or such like as you're likely to end up with an unfair dismissal case or an 'infringement of their human rights' case against you.
Whatever happened to the common sense approach we used to have?
At 19, I was just at the end of serving my time, but if I got out of line, lippy, or wouldn't do what was asked, the foreman or the guy I was working with would find me the worst jobs on site to do as punishment, and not just for an hour or so, a few days if they thought it neccessary.
It gives you a different aspect on listening and learning that's for sure!
Might not help in your situation, but it might be that a similar approach could work, if he refuses to listen or do what's asked, (after all, you're paying him :roll giving him some really mundane or unsavoury stuff to do for a while might refocus him!
Could be that the humnan rights issue might get mentioned, but as long as it's something that would need to be done as part of the work involved, he should have no argument.
Myself and fellow lippy youths swept the entire site before, dug holes by hand for fence posts that never ended up with fence posts in them :lol: knotted and prime painted a rainforest of skirtings and architraves... and these were a few of the better ones!
I learnt to learn and take advice by the time I was 17!!!

Andy

 

[andy king]

Oh yes, another good one, de-nailing old timber, then being 'made to straighten the nails out to be re-used' only to be made to go to the builders merchants and buy a box of them just after i'd finished straightening them... :lol:
Andy

 

[beejay]

I would suggest youre flogging a dead horse with this kid.
Its a 'mind set' thing and unless you've got an awful lot of time to sepnd mentoring /coaching him I would drop him as soon as.
I'ts unlikely he's going to change so find someone who is able to take instruction and also do a better job. Its your money and your reputation at stake.
regards,beejay

 

[wizer]

I think you should have a chat with the guy and if it persists then get rid. You have to be fair to him but at the end of the day its your cash and your house.

 

[woodbloke]

Rog - lots of excellent advice given here which I endorse, I would agree with Andy's point tho' on using his chisels, but then I get the feeling that he maybe doesn't care too much anyway about the job anyway....time to part company I think :wink: - Rob

 

[woodshavings]

It could be an interesting point if he is an employee.....PAYE, NI etc.
However, if he has been working with you for less than 1 year, you are only obliged to give him 1 weeks notice under employment law.
Good luck
John

 

[Losos]

Oh yes, another good one, de-nailing old timber, then being 'made to straighten the nails out to be re-used' only to be made to go to the builders merchants and buy a box of them just after i'd finished straightening them... :lol:
Andy

This is am excellant example of how discipline and respect were engendered in past times.

Nowadays I fear that being accountants run, every business has to 'work' every asset (and that of course includes the humans as well as the machines) to 100%

I regret it, I don't believe in it, but that does seem to be the philosophy today. Try telling an accountant that if the new employees doesn't have to go through the 'regime' described by Andy above they will not become dedicated and hardworking employees, and ultimately the business will suffer.

Is it any surprise that businesses in Britain today are loosing out to the far east.

Ok rant over, just thought Andy made some real valid points which I can only agree with.

 

[andy king]

Hi Losos,

I think you're right. It certainly made me realise what was expected of me, and I had a lot more respect for my betters, I listened and learned from an early stage of my career.
Incidentally, the worst one I ever had to do was mix up plaster for two of the fastest plasterers I've ever seen! That was all by hand, with a piece of batten - no electric whisks and drills then! I slept well after those couple of days...

Andy

 

[Taffy Turner]

Roger,

Having had a fair amount of experience in previous jobs employing youngsters, I think you need to sit down with him and have a serious talk about attitude, and explain to him the consequences of his not altering his.

Either he will sort himself out, or you can let him go with a clear conscience that you at least tried to set him right.

You may well find that he fails to turn up for work on the day following your talk - if so, it saves you the bother of giving him notice etc.

Sadly, people like him often need to be sacked a few times before they wake up and smell the coffee.

Regards

Gary

 

[mailee]

Give him the boot Roger and employ me instead. I have the experience but may be a little old as an apprentice at 52. :lol: Oh and I got my own tools too. :lol:

 

[RogerS]

Give him the boot Roger and employ me instead. I have the experience but may be a little old as an apprentice at 52. :lol: Oh and I got my own tools too. :lol:

Mailee - you'd be made very welcome. I even have a tent you can sue during the week as it's a bit of a drive for you on a daily basis :wink:

 

[Woodmagnet]

I'm only 51 Roger and i've got my own tools as well.
PICK ME, PICK ME. :lol:

 

[tim]

Well c'mon Roger what did you do?

Cheers

Tim

 

[lurker]

Oh and I got my own tools too. :lol:

Roger, your project would NEVER be short of a router

'Ave a word with Pete but at least see his point about the chisel.

 

[mailee]

:lol: Like it Lurker.

 

[dennyk]

As I see it and with many years under my belt, and having employed young people with little or no experience in the real world.

I would put it this way, you are the employer and he is the employee,

1) the employer asks for a certain task to be done by the employee,for which the employer pays the employee a certain amount of wage.

2) the employee does what he is told to do and expects a wage for doing so.

3) the employee does not do what he is told to do, therefore the employer does not pay him a wage, and the employee should not expect to be paid a wage.

4) THE VERDICT IMHO, dismiss him for not obeying your instruction and under no circumstances give him a favourable reference.