blum drawer issues

[reck123]

I am having some difficulty with these

basically i have built the drawer boxes perfectly to size and cut the notches what i seem to be having is some difficulty with the hole at the back which receives the hook.
I opted out of buying the drilling jig and used blums measurements to mark and drill the 10mm deep 6mm wide hole. Whilst the drawers operate there is some degree of sag when the drawers are fully open, up to 3mm over the entire drawers (250mm slides) when they are fully open. this drooping drawer is obviously is not very ideal.

Basically whilst the hooks seem in line with the holes there isn’t really much grip at all so they are quite loose free in the holes causing the draw to sag slightly. i just can’t figure out where I’m going wrong.

one drawer the hook fits the hole quite snugly but the others i just can’t get it right. I have marked drilled and plugged with a dowel and predrilled three times now. tried shoving the drawer shut and using the indent of the hooks to drill the hole but to no avail.
I notice there is some adjustment on the back of the slides to move each slide up and down and thought that could be where I’m going wrong but couldn’t get it.
does anyone have any ideas?

thank you much for any advice you have.w

 

[custard]

When you say 3mm sag/drooping, what exactly do you mean?

Is the front of the drawer level? Are both sides of the drawer level?

 

[reck123]

Hi Custard.

Thanks for your response,

I mean that when the drawer is fully extended the front of the drawer is lower then the back. when viewed from the side the drawer does not appear level with the cabinet carcass.

I'm sure both sides are the drawer are level.

 

[AJB Temple]

What slides are you using? Tandem, Movento?

I only use Movento. In my case I prefer soft close and push to open, with a sync rod across, so I am super careful about precision fitting (I did some today as it happens). I trust you have the required 15mm between bottom of draw side and bottom of draw base? The drawer sides sit in and on the slider, so it is not really possible for the drawer to tilt if you have got this right. You can check it by removing the rails from the carcass and make sure everything fits perfectly on an inverted drawer. Although I have the Blum templates, I actually mark the back locator hole by inverting the drawer and making sure the pin is correctly positioned. I usually neaten it up with a chisel if I have to adjust the hole slightly, but that is just me.

The rear template is about £6 and worth getting if you are not used to the Blum system.

If you have adjusters (they vary depending what you bought), make sure they are set the same on both sides before putting the drawer in. Sounds obvious but you have 3mm of adjustment there. The Movento have a height adjustment lever at the back (grey). Obviously it needs to be the same on both sides if you have done everything level.

The runners in the carcass must be dead level, set the same distance back (with 1cm gap at rear of carcass) and at exactly the same height as each other. The drawer will not run properly if you are not level front to back and side to side across the runners.

When you fit the drawer into the runners, make sure you give it a good shove to locate the pin at the back and the quick release at the front.

It's a very good system once you get the hang of fitting it.

If these points don't work, post photos. If need be, PM me and I will give you my number and talk you through it.

Adrian

 

[custard]

We all tend to believe that the things we've made are perfectly square, straight, and true, but when faced with this type of problem I go back to basics and check all the details. Measure the diagonals of the drawer boxes, for the average range of drawer sizes the two diagonals should be within 1mm of each other. Then cut some winding sticks from MDF, make them about about 1mm shorter than the internal width of your cabinet and use them to test if there is any twist in the drawer runner installation.

 

[reck123]

What slides are you using? Tandem, Movento?

I only use Movento. In my case I prefer soft close and push to open, with a sync rod across, so I am super careful about precision fitting (I did some today as it happens). I trust you have the required 15mm between bottom of draw side and bottom of draw base? The drawer sides sit in and on the slider, so it is not really possible for the drawer to tilt if you have got this right. You can check it by removing the rails from the carcass and make sure everything fits perfectly on an inverted drawer. Although I have the Blum templates, I actually mark the back locator hole by inverting the drawer and making sure the pin is correctly positioned. I usually neaten it up with a chisel if I have to adjust the hole slightly, but that is just me.

The rear template is about £6 and worth getting if you are not used to the Blum system.

If you have adjusters (they vary depending what you bought), make sure they are set the same on both sides before putting the drawer in. Sounds obvious but you have 3mm of adjustment there. The Movento have a height adjustment lever at the back (grey). Obviously it needs to be the same on both sides if you have done everything level.

The runners in the carcass must be dead level, set the same distance back (with 1cm gap at rear of carcass) and at exactly the same height as each other. The drawer will not run properly if you are not level front to back and side to side across the runners.

When you fit the drawer into the runners, make sure you give it a good shove to locate the pin at the back and the quick release at the front.

It's a very good system once you get the hang of fitting it.

If these points don't work, post photos. If need be, PM me and I will give you my number and talk you through it.

Adrian

thank you Adrian,

That is some really solid information and very kind of you. I am back in the workshop this afternoon so can run through this and try to find my errors. In my case these are the tandem slides though im not to sure what the difference is. movento has the extra adjustment on the clips right?

I have the required 15mm depth from drawer slides to drawer bottom and measured in and up using the blum marking measurments in the manuel to drill the 6mm / 10mm deep hole.

I wasn't aware that they sold a template just for the back holes and had only seen the one for 40 euros to drill the back holes and the holes to mount the clips (which seemed overkill).

the tandem also has the same adjustment grey leaver on the back which i only discovered later, I think that is the only adjustment.

I will recheck the slides to see if they are level on the back and front and dead flat in the carcuss.

They actually run and function very smoothly so i cant be far off, but there must be something awry causing this issue on both sets of drawers.

anyway ill see how i get on and post some photos.

thanks again for the solid tips, much appreciated,

Nick

 

[reck123]

We all tend to believe that the things we've made are perfectly square, straight, and true, but when faced with this type of problem I go back to basics and check all the details. Measure the diagonals of the drawer boxes, for the average range of drawer sizes the two diagonals should be within 1mm of each other. Then cut some winding sticks from MDF, make them about about 1mm shorter than the internal width of your cabinet and use them to test if there is any twist in the drawer runner installation.

thanks custard,

Will tripple check my measurments and see if everything lines up as it should.

 

[AJB Temple]

Hi Nick, The wholesale suppliers seem to have a range of templates. The back one is very simple in basic form (just plastic - but there is a version with a steel drill guide). I have a few spares and would happily send you one but I see you are in Berlin.

For the hole in the back, I would just turn the drawer upside down and do a trial check of the rail directly onto the drawer. You will find that you have about 1.5 to 2mm positioning scope from side to side at both front and back if you have used 15mm or 14mm draw sides. This may be enough to deal with any squaring up issues either in carcass or drawer if you pack the runner fixings in the carcass should you need to deal with a slight out of square. It will certainly tell you if you have got the holes in the back in the right place. You may well find that if your vertical alignment is off by 1mm at the back the the this translates to a bigger variance at the front, especially if your hole is too far up the back of the drawer (down, if inverted). You eliminate this by checking the whole rail fit on the underside of the drawer. This is why I do it. But as I say the fully synchronised Movento requires precision.

It's a long while since I fitted Tandem, but they are basically much the same, just a bit simpler than the Movento. Blum changed the design a bit in the last couple of years, moving the front adjuster onto the track.

Good luck this afternoon.

Adrian

 

[AJB Temple]

The other thing that occurs to me, that I have seen kitchen fitters screw up, is the way of fixing the runners to the carcass. I do actually use the Blum adjustable template for this, but you can just offer up the rails. You only need the front or back to be 1mm off (up or down) and that creates an out of wind situation. I use a small magnetic level to check and if I am using the rail as a drilling template I always use a centring drill. Inaccuracy is caused by using ordinary screws rather than the euro screws that are intended for drawer runners, as ordinary screws can create slop in the fitting.

 

[reck123]

First of all apologies for such a late reply @AJB Temple

Admittedly I didn't get the chance to start messing around with the drawers and and now on my christmas break. Thanks again for all the solid advice I will refer to this when i am back in my workshop next week.

Very kind of you to offer the template and yes I am based in berlin, I may just bite the bullet and get blums consumer template. I plan on doing more of these drawers so in the long game maybe its just worth it to lessen any human error.

I hope your enjoying your holidays and thank you once again.

Best,

Nick

 

[Shytot]

Good thread this , thanks . I’ve fitted plenty of Blum tandem runners but didn’t know you could buy a template for the hole at the back of the draw . That’s why forums are great

 

[Prizen]

Great thread. I have used Tandem before and am currently working on a project using Movento so all the above is super helpful.

@reck123 where do you buy your Blum hardware? I am in Ireland and have used a UK company up to now but need to find a European company that will sell to private non trade!

 

[custard]

didn’t know you could buy a template for the hole at the back of the draw

Just be aware it's not foolproof, this won't mean much until you've got one in your hand, but when you do you'll see it registers from both the inside and the outside of the drawer side, but with no indication which is the correct option!

So don't assume that a firm registration is automatically correct, pause first to figure things out.

 

[reck123]

Great thread. I have used Tandem before and am currently working on a project using Movento so all the above is super helpful.

@reck123 where do you buy your Blum hardware? I am in Ireland and have used a UK company up to now but need to find a European company that will sell to private non trade!

I ordered them form here Möbelbeschläge von Blum, Häfele, Hettich u. LignoWare | Lignoshop
have ordered a few times in the past and they have always been reliable and delivery was speedy.

 

[TheTiddles]

Should you not expect the drawer to be lower at the front than back when open? I have a set on a heavy cutlery drawer and the same thing happens, but then it’s a cantilever, to avoid this they would have to be angled upwards to compensate for the downwards surely?

Aidan

 

[reck123]

thanks for your reply Tiddle. I don't know I thought they would be supported by the rail and remain flat across the length. they are only small drawers 250mm long and so far I haven't put any weight in them. When I measure from a flat surface up to the bottom of the drawer sides at both ends there is a 1 to 2mm difference in drop across the length of the sides. this isnt much but appears noticable when looking at the cabinet from the side onc(with the drawers fully extended).

I figured my 6mm wide 10mm holes at the back were maybe not correct as there seems to be a bit of play and i figure these should lock into the holes snuggly and support the drawer across its length. i.e no droop
I ended up buying the drilling jig which ultimatly didn't make a difference.

can you tell me if the pins on the back of the slides do indeed lock in tightly?

my drawers work well otherwise and perhaps im being too picky but i feel i might be doing something wrong,

 

[AJB Temple]

The pins at the back should be snug, correct depth but not tight. Really they mainly stop the drawer tipping up. On the version I use there is vertical adjustment on each side at the back, and at the front on both sides and side to side / skew alignment adjustment at the front on both sides as well.

I tend to trial fit each track to the bottom of each drawer before fitting the tracks into the cabinet aperture. This double checks that I have got exactly the correct distance between the fully engaged pin at the back, and the orange hook unit at the front. I recommend doing this when people have trouble. The system does not work well if front and back are not correctly engaged. It's very easy though.

I fit the drawers to run dead level - empty and loaded and take care to use the correct runners for the required loading and ensure there is no base deflection (so I use thicker bases than most people do - rebated all round in the box.). I use the push to open and soft close system, which is the maximum level of fiddliness

 

[reck123]

Thanks @AJB Temple I have pm'ed you

 

[TheTiddles]

You’ve got to have some drop, it’s a question of magnitudes

Aidan

 

[Marineboy]

Mine are also dead level, I don’t understand why you would want them to otherwise. Re the holes in the drawer for the back pins, I simply butted the drawer up against the pins and gave the back of the slide a light tap with a hammer. This marked the exact location needed for the hole.