Best vintage Chisels

[Just4Fun]

Interesting. Would they work as mortice chisels - without a bolster and all that bashing?

And if they did work, would the resulting joint work or would the tenon snap off at the least bit of pressure?

 

[Jacob]

And if they did work, would the resulting joint work or would the tenon snap off at the least bit of pressure?

Not for M&Ts. Thin slots, either to accommodate metal work when many things were made of wood/metal combined, or thin slots to get a hole saw started perhaps - cutting a letter box hole?
They do cut a slot quite quickly, along the grain. I've tried it (1/8" chisel) but not for any useful purpose yet! You have to work it from marks on both sides and aim as best you can to get the slots to meet halfway, which isn't that difficult if you line it up by sighting from the end of the slot, down the grain.

 

[dannyr]

I had a couple of mortice chisels with trad 'pigstick' handles that were definitely made (not by me) from old industrial hack saw blades - a little thicker than yours Ted, but not much. They had wedged on bolsters.



So.... next subject ..... what the heck are these chisels .... First saw mention in Salaman's respected Dict of ww tools

Then in French and German catalogues from 20s and 50s

Salaman seems uncharacteristically vague about these, talking about their use for morticing in hidden hinges either all steel as shown or wood handle. The French cata has them as bedanes, which usually means mortice chisel, the German as plugging chisels and there's even a 2021 French catalogue with something v similar for fitting sockets.

Anyone help with more knowledge?

 

[dannyr]

And then I find this (sold in uk),,, obviously from the same family of chisels(?), but for the life of me can't see how it might work, especially with that wrong way outside taper.

BTW the points and the 'shovel' are sharp. Looks like it's never been used.

(when I first acquired it I thought it might just be a part of a machine morticer or a turning tool , but I can't see that being the case)

 

[D_W]

Interesting. Would they work as mortice chisels - without a bolster and all that bashing?
Thin ones down to 1/8" seem quite common but do have a bolster just like their big brothers.

The length and shape of the handles suggests they were pushed or manipulated without striking. Not much force would be required to push them into a thin slot and lever material out at that width - they'd probably work quite well.

No clue what one would use them for, though.

 

[toolsntat]

I had a couple of mortice chisels with trad 'pigstick' handles that were definitely made (not by me) from old industrial hack saw blades - a little thicker than yours Ted, but not much. They had wedged on bolsters.



So.... next subject ..... what the heck are these chisels .... First saw mention in Salaman's respected Dict of ww tools View attachment 118859


Then in French and German catalogues from 20s and 50s
View attachment 118860
View attachment 118861

Salaman seems uncharacteristically vague about these, talking about their use for morticing in hidden hinges either all steel as shown or wood handle. The French cata has them as bedanes, which usually means mortice chisel, the German as plugging chisels and there's even a 2021 French catalogue with something v similar for fitting sockets.

Anyone help with more knowledge?

For cutting hinge mortices where the flap is concealed in the timber.
Cheers Andy

 

[workshopted]

I had a couple of mortice chisels with trad 'pigstick' handles that were definitely made (not by me) from old industrial hack saw blades - a little thicker than yours Ted, but not much. They had wedged on bolsters.



So.... next subject ..... what the heck are these chisels .... First saw mention in Salaman's respected Dict of ww tools View attachment 118859


Then in French and German catalogues from 20s and 50s
View attachment 118860
View attachment 118861

Salaman seems uncharacteristically vague about these, talking about their use for morticing in hidden hinges either all steel as shown or wood handle. The French cata has them as bedanes, which usually means mortice chisel, the German as plugging chisels and there's even a 2021 French catalogue with something v similar for fitting sockets.

Anyone help with more knowledge?

Hi, Danny, I'm afraid you've got me on that one, my friend... Many thanks for these interesting images though.

 

[workshopted]

This was for sale locally last week - cost me all of 50p and both the seller and myself thought it was well worth it for the laugh.

But, more seriously , it was once a much loved Sheffield made chisel and the weird string repair obviously worked for a while as the piece of string over theView attachment 117577 top has been beaten well into the wood. When I've finished rehandling and fettling it it will go on for another lifetime

Hi, Danny, would you mind if I download and use this pic of your chisel and use it on a Facebook group I'm in... it's to play a joke on a friend.

 

[Jacob]

For cutting hinge mortices where the flap is concealed in the timber.
Cheers Andy

But who does that and how, why, where? I've never seen it, (which doesn't mean it doesn't happen of course). And hinge flaps that thin?

 

[dannyr]

Just found another catalogue with these in (Austrian 1909) -- one (fischbandeisen) is shaped like the barbed Neptune's Triton spear (or an eel fishing spear) the other like a thin plugging chisel, both come in several widths and thicknesses from 1.25-3.25mm, so obviously a very specific slot. And the barbed one has a patent no of 82333 if anyone knows how to navigate old euro patents. I think the barbs are to help remove chips, but I remain really puzzled by the cutting edge being narrower than the 'shoulder' behind it (like mine) --obviously designed to be but can't visualise the action.

The catalogue calls them both einlasseisen fur aufsatzbander , ie something like 'letting in iron for top seated bands'.

I think all the finely graduated sizes seem to confirm the 'slot for hidden hinge leaf' theory, as Salaman and Andy.

Oh yes, Ted -- do use my pix as you choose. If the joke works, let us know.

 

[workshopted]

Just found another catalogue with these in (Austrian 1909) -- one (fischbandeisen) is shaped like the barbed Neptune's Triton spear (or an eel fishing spear) the other just like a thin plugging chisel, come in several thicknesses from 1.25-3.25mm, so obviously a very specific slot. And the barbed one has a patent no of 82333 if anyone knows how to navigate old euro patents. I think the barbs are to help remove chips, but I remain really puzzled by the cutting edge being narrower than the 'shoulder' behind it (like mine) --obviously designed to be but can't visualise the action.

The catalogue calls them both einlasseisen fur aufsatzbander , ie something like inlet iron for top seated band.

I think all the finely graduated sizes seem to confirm the 'slot for hidden hinge leaf' theory, as Salaman and Andy.

Oh yes, Ted -- do use my pix as you choose. If the joke works, let us know.

Many thanks, Mr. Dan.

 

[dannyr]

Many thanks, Mr. Dan.

And when they've responded to that one, maybe you could ask them to show their collections of einlasseisen fur aufsatzbander epecially if it should include a fischbandeisen?

 

[toolsntat]

But who does that and how, why, where? I've never seen it, (which doesn't mean it doesn't happen of course). And hinge flaps that thin?

It's a continental thing.
Cheers Andy

 

[Just4Fun]

I haven't seen that and can't really visualise it. How are the hinges held in place? I assume they are not screwed if buried in the timber.

 

[workshopted]

And when they've responded to that one, maybe you could ask them to show their collections of einlasseisen fur aufsatzbander epecially if it should include a fischbandeisen?

I promise to try, Mr. Dan, but my French isn't very good.

 

[workshopted]

Just found another catalogue with these in (Austrian 1909) -- one (fischbandeisen) is shaped like the barbed Neptune's Triton spear (or an eel fishing spear) the other like a thin plugging chisel, both come in several widths and thicknesses from 1.25-3.25mm, so obviously a very specific slot. And the barbed one has a patent no of 82333 if anyone knows how to navigate old euro patents. I think the barbs are to help remove chips, but I remain really puzzled by the cutting edge being narrower than the 'shoulder' behind it (like mine) --obviously designed to be but can't visualise the action.

The catalogue calls them both einlasseisen fur aufsatzbander , ie something like 'letting in iron for top seated bands'.

I think all the finely graduated sizes seem to confirm the 'slot for hidden hinge leaf' theory, as Salaman and Andy.

Oh yes, Ted -- do use my pix as you choose. If the joke works, let us know.

The post of your chisel on the Unplugged Woodworkers Facebook page generated a lot of fun, Danny. I started it off with...
I've been wanting to post this for some time but I've had to until I knew that Jim Hendricks (the destroyer of 'handles with history') would be taking his mid-morning nap. The handle on this chisel shows one man's ingenuity, inventiveness, and the ability to think outside of the box, that's so admired by lovers of old tools, and as such, it deserves to be preserved in all its glory!
All in favour say, Aye.
Signed Frugal Mcdougal' and it took off from there. Grin!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Unp...77033&ref=notif&notif_t=group_comment_mention

 

[dannyr]

The post of your chisel on the Unplugged Woodworkers Facebook page generated a lot of fun, Danny. I started it off with...
I've been wanting to post this for some time but I've had to until I knew that Jim Hendricks (the destroyer of 'handles with history') would be taking his mid-morning nap. The handle on this chisel shows one man's ingenuity, inventiveness, and the ability to think outside of the box, that's so admired by lovers of old tools, and as such, it deserves to be preserved in all its glory!
All in favour say, Aye.
Signed Frugal Mcdougal' and it took off from there. Grin!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Unp...77033&ref=notif&notif_t=group_comment_mention

I have succumbed to public pressure and am preserving this chisel for posterity - may remove some surface rust, which is not too bad, and the edge, though rounded, is sharpish - it may have been aggravated by the flea market being outside on a wet day. What I like is that not only was the chisel repaired like this, but obviously used quite a bit with the repair. BTW it's a 1in firmer, that most fundamental of tools, stamped 'warranted cast steel', typical 1850's-1930's hand forged style, prob Sheffield, and the proud owner (handle stamped) was R LEE; probably not a member of your Facebook group, nor a Confederate general.

 

[Jacob]

....the edge, though rounded, is sharpish - i...

Sorry to be pedantic but nothing wrong with "rounded"- it's traditional and can be as sharp as you want.
"Rounded over" i.e. edge angle too high, is the thing to avoid but rounded bevel with an edge angle of around 30º is fine and is what freehand sharpening gives you. It's normal.
Edge angle "too high" is ambiguous anyway - even 90º will work in certain circumstances.
Thanks for this link whoever posted it a few days ago!

 

[workshopted]

I have succumbed to public pressure and am preserving this chisel for posterity - may remove some surface rust, which is not too bad, and the edge, though rounded, is sharpish - it may have been aggravated by the flea market being outside on a wet day. What I like is that not only was the chisel repaired like this, but obviously used quite a bit with the repair. BTW it's a 1in firmer, that most fundamental of tools, stamped 'warranted cast steel', typical 1850's-1930's hand forged style, prob Sheffield, and the proud owner (handle stamped) was R LEE; probably not a member of your Facebook group, nor a Confederate general.

I'll run a check but I don't think we have any Confederate Generals.

 

[peterw3035]

It's a sash scribing gouge for working the glazing bar joints...

That's interesting, I have one of these chisels belonged to my great grandfather. I've always wondered what is was for. Thks