best solvent for making shellac?

[jcassidy]

Axminster Liberon flakes

Can't find any in Dublin so checked out Axminster; €21, plus €25 shipping!!! for 250g packet, that's all customs and duties...

 

[Craig22]

The shipping to UK customers would likely be brutal. In addition to the shipping cost in the table below, there is a €17.50 Customs clearance charge and UK duties.

Agreed. I hadn't looked as far as the shipping tables. I think the problem is that shipping flammable materials needs a significant paperwork burden, and that is what punches up the price from Euro10 to Euro33. Plus VAT (payable in Germany) so it should not be hit with any import charges; but I have no idea how Brexit has changed things in that regard.

But it does make the price impractical.

You can get meths without the blue colouring by the way. Same price (~£18 for 5l). I've heard it said that meths has increased in price by a factor of two because of use in hand santizer. That does not sound right, because most hand sanitizers use Iso-propyl alcohol. Meths has either methanol or MEK in it to stop people drinking it, and as we know has a very characteristic, and somewhat unpleasant smell.

When pure ethanol was freely available, there was an old adage - girls were advised never to marry a French Polisher, because they were perpetually sozzled by drinking the ethanol shellac solvent.

 

[Adam W.]

Can't find any in Dublin so checked out Axminster; €21, plus €25 shipping!!! for 250g packet, that's all customs and duties...

https://www.handyhardware.ie/Liberon-Button-Shellac-500g_p_51633.html
https://www.thecarpentrystore.com/p/liberon-blonde-dewaxed-shellac-flakes/5022640006964

 

[jcassidy]

https://www.handyhardware.ie/Liberon-Button-Shellac-500g_p_51633.html
https://www.thecarpentrystore.com/p/liberon-blonde-dewaxed-shellac-flakes/5022640006964

Yes but I've history with the Carpentry Store... placed an order that never arrived and no response to several emails...

 

[ps.harris80]

So having just discovered the B&Q sell Ethanol as Bio Ethanol and my local had loads when I picked up a bottle a couple of weeks ago, when I went back to get a few more after discovering how good it was at desolving Shellsc flakes, I found they had sold out and when I checked on line they showed zero stock in the company.

Anyone know what might have happened for all their stock to vanish, did they find out they shouldn't have been selling it.

Wish I picked up a few extra bottles now.

 

[johnnyb]

I'm no expert but there is a difference between solvents for shellac. I believe its how much water is in the alcohol to start with. The drier the better. This is why pre made fresh shellac is often a better bet. The alcohol is better.

 

[johnnyb]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...8QFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2b4za8hhFRg2q__Xzv1XWT

 

[johnnyb]

Everyone one of a certain vintage knew Vincent in the potteries. He died behind a kiln from the fumes.

 

[johnnyb]

Sorry the rambling article doesn't mention his biography was called. The story of a "methelated spirit"

 

[worn thumbs]

So having just discovered the B&Q sell Ethanol as Bio Ethanol and my local had loads when I picked up a bottle a couple of weeks ago, when I went back to get a few more after discovering how good it was at desolving Shellsc flakes, I found they had sold out and when I checked on line they showed zero stock in the company.

Anyone know what might have happened for all their stock to vanish, did they find out they shouldn't have been selling it.

Wish I picked up a few extra bottles now.

Maybe they worked out,or were told,that without the methanol and dye it wasn't so different to vodka.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

So having just discovered the B&Q sell Ethanol as Bio Ethanol and my local had loads when I picked up a bottle a couple of weeks ago, when I went back to get a few more after discovering how good it was at desolving Shellsc flakes, I found they had sold out and when I checked on line they showed zero stock in the company.

Anyone know what might have happened for all their stock to vanish, did they find out they shouldn't have been selling it.

Wish I picked up a few extra bottles now.

Start of covid, no sanitiser to be had (well - £5 for 50ml), went to B&Q, being sold for indoor ethanol fuelled fires, bought several litres for almost nothing!!

 

[ps.harris80]

But this was over the last couple weeks, so nothing to do with Covid.

I was wondering if someone pointed out that it was illegal to sell Ethanol in the UK without the purple dye and bittering agent.

It vanished from stock almost overnight.

 

[TRITON]

I think I've discovered another use for Gin

 

[Grandad455]

Get yourself a drip coffee filter and papers. Assemble the filter and fill it with activated charcoal as used for fish tank filters. Pour your purple meths through it slowly and after two or three pours, the pink and stink will have disappeared. Result, clear ethanol, plenty good enough for dissolving shellac. Still not suitable for consumption though, so don't be tempted.

 

[MF1000]

Meths is 90% ethanol with methanol added to make it unfit for consumption, poisonous Ethanol will incur duty so will be very expensive.

If it’s 90% ethanol it would also attract duty …approx £28/litre of pure ethanol plus VAT

‘domestic’ methylated spirit is methyl alcohol with the addition of pyridene which is an irritant so you vomit before your stomach absorbs too much of the methyl alcohol which is toxic and destroys your optic nerves

 

[Fitzroy]

If it’s 90% ethanol it would also attract duty …approx £28/litre of pure ethanol plus VAT

‘domestic’ methylated spirit is methyl alcohol with the addition of pyridene which is an irritant so you vomit before your stomach absorbs too much of the methyl alcohol which is toxic and destroys your optic nerves

Interesting to see your source for that, as I though the same then at the time of making the post I did some internet research and nearly every page I could find discussing what is in meths talked about it being mainly ethanol with other additives including methanol and pyridine. For example this page.

Genuinely interested to see better info on this subject,

 

[Jester129]

I have some Isopropanol 99.98%. Would that be suitable? Just interested.

 

[profchris]

I suspect that meths in the UK contains little or no methyl alcohol, probably on safety grounds for those who still drink it.

My local hardware store sells me Bird Brand meths, which I use successfully to mix shellac. According to its SMDS (https://www.birdbrand.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Methylated_Spirits_Purple_v1.0_09_01_2020.pdf) this is %90+ ethyl acohol with added isopropyl acohol, and denatured with butanone (aka ethyl methyl ketone), which UK Government advice suggests is not carcinogenic, but can make you feel ill if you ingest or breathe in enough of the fumes.

For brushing or wiping/padding shellac, this seems very low risk indeed. Spraying would be worth doing outdoors and/or with a suitable mask.

 

[Dynamite]

So whats the majority verdict then peeps? Use purple coloured meths from B&Q?

Kind Regards... Rob

 

[MF1000]

I suspect that meths in the UK contains little or no methyl alcohol, probably on safety grounds for those who still drink it.

My local hardware store sells me Bird Brand meths, which I use successfully to mix shellac. According to its SMDS (https://www.birdbrand.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Methylated_Spirits_Purple_v1.0_09_01_2020.pdf) this is %90+ ethyl acohol with added isopropyl acohol, and denatured with butanone (aka ethyl methyl ketone), which UK Government advice suggests is not carcinogenic, but can make you feel ill if you ingest or breathe in enough of the fumes.

For brushing or wiping/padding shellac, this seems very low risk indeed. Spraying would be worth doing outdoors and/or with a suitable mask.

Very interesting….its meths but contains no methanol
MEK is a very volatile solvent - the smell of the original marker was due to MEK - it will flash off very quickly. ISO propanol is propyl alcohol … just a bit ‘oilier’ than ethanol