Best plane for a woman.

[Mr T]

Last weekend I taught my first ever ladies only beginners course to coincide with International Womens day. The course went well, although it did overriun slightly. This was mainly because of problems with mastering the plane, there is quite a lot of planing in the course. It's partly a problem with lack of upper body strength but also there seemed a problem with technique, just keeping the plane flat on the workpiece. I tried different planes and found that the low angle jack worked best. The LAJ is lighter than other planes of that size and also requires less strength to drive.

I wonder if others have any veiws on the best plane for a woman.

Some might also want to comment on whether a cambered blade would be better for a woman

Chris

 

[transatlantic]

[]

 

[custard]

There are more and more women taking up cabinet making and training to a professional level. I've met a few and very fine craft workers they are too, by and large I've never noticed they use tools any differently to their male counterparts. But these are younger, fitter women.

If your ladies Chris were elderly hobbyists then I can see why a low angle jack might help at the beginning, and that's probably also true for a lot of elderly male hobbyists.

I suspect that a traditional 04 or 04 1/2 isn't the best plane to learn with because there's so little sole in front of the cutting edge. When I see people planing for the first time they often fail to plant the plane firmly on the workpiece before commencing the cut, so end up massacring the first inch of the board, the equivalent of machine snipe but with a hand plane! So I agree, a slightly longer but still fairly light plane makes a lot of sense.

 

[John Brown]

A Jill Plane.

 

[D_W]

Fantastic!

 

[D_W]

Standard planes. Where are the people who were hassling me last week?

The ladies are a perfect candidate for learning to use a cap iron early to keep the plane working smoothly through wood rather than crashing in and out of the cut.

If they are slight, keep the cut thickness down, camber slightly increased and wax handy.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I thought Womens' day was supposed to be about "gender parity" ? That went well then.

 

[MikeG.]

Standard planes. Where are the people who were hassling me last week?

Here, because.....

The ladies are a perfect candidate for learning to use a cap iron early to keep the plane working smoothly through wood rather than crashing in and out of the cut........

Your same old hobby-horse. You may be right, but it's irrelevant. Bring this sermon up when it is in context.

 

[Mr T]

I thought Womens' day was supposed to be about "gender parity" ? That went well then.

Me no understand!

Chris

 

[Mr T]

Standard planes. Where are the people who were hassling me last week?

The ladies are a perfect candidate for learning to use a cap iron early to keep the plane working smoothly through wood rather than crashing in and out of the cut.

If they are slight, keep the cut thickness down, camber slightly increased and wax handy.

Actually I find that a close set cap iron, while it gives a fantastic cut, means you have to use more effort to drive the plane which you want avoid if you lack upper body strength.

There are more and more women taking up cabinet making and training to a professional level. I've met a few and very fine craft workers they are too, by and large I've never noticed they use tools any differently to their male counterparts. But these are younger, fitter women.

If your ladies Chris were elderly hobbyists then I can see why a low angle jack might help at the beginning, and that's probably also true for a lot of elderly male hobbyists.

I suspect that a traditional 04 or 04 1/2 isn't the best plane to learn with because there's so little sole in front of the cutting edge. When I see people planing for the first time they often fail to plant the plane firmly on the workpiece before commencing the cut, so end up massacring the first inch of the board, the equivalent of machine snipe but with a hand plane! So I agree, a slightly longer but still fairly light plane makes a lot of sense.

I often have women on my courses, perhaps about 20% of my students are women and I have not noticed they this problem so much before, they often out perforrm the men on the course. It just seemed they all had problems this weekend. I agree about the No. 4, one of the biggest problems for the inexperienced is starting the cut, the short end on the No. 4 does not help. The standard plane in my bench kits is the 5 1/2.

Chris

 

[Mrs C]

I personally find a 5 easier than a 4 as mine feels better balanced, but that might just be me! I think that bench height has more to do with it than the plane itself (oh, and not to mention the concept of getting it sharp, but best not go there!).

Where I have really struggled is planes meant for one handed use such as block planes as my hands just aren't big enough.

 

[D_W]

Actually I find that a close set cap iron, while it gives a fantastic cut, means you have to use more effort to drive the plane which you want avoid if you lack upper body strength.
Chris

Hi Chris - that'd be described as setting it too close. Setting it a notch just back from that is productive. The effort of planing is little more, there is no interruption in the cut, any minor tearout that occurs will be small, and the plane requires less downforce.

Trust me, it's less. It's good practice for everyone.

 

[D_W]

Your same old hobby-horse. You may be right, but it's irrelevant. Bring this sermon up when it is in context.

I think you know little about planing and you're willing to stay that way. That doesn't mean everyone else wants to remain ignorant, though. Keep that in mind.

If you think that it's a peripheral issue (using a cap iron to make planing easier), then I could probably teach a rank beginner to outwork you in two weeks. That is almost as pitiful as your attitude.

 

[Tasky]

I think that bench height has more to do with it than the plane itself

I agree with Mrs C... which sounds like a campaign slogan- "I Like Ike", sorta thing. :lol:

As you may know, I've been struggling a bit with learning to use my planes on low sawhorses, but I did let my wife 'have a little go' on my 4 and 5 when she came in to see how I was getting along.
She's notably shorter than me (and has a bit more bodyweight, but we won't go there), so was able to get behind the plane and shove it better than I could with my lanky gibbon arms.
Same concept as Mrs C's bench height, but bringing the woodworker down to height rather than the bench up to it.

Incidentally, also the exact same concept as the body mechanics behind delivering a hook punch to the ribs or kidneys in boxing - that's something else I'm usually too tall for, but at which my shorter wife absolutely kicks arse at!!

I'm starting to wonder if *I* should be watching TV and cuddling up with the dogs, while my wife freezes her backside off working wood in the garage...!!

Where I have really struggled is planes meant for one handed use such as block planes as my hands just aren't big enough.

The wife also has smaller hands, so did well with both bench planes, whereas mine still ache.

Felicitously, the latest blog from Paul Sellers is all about Hannah, a young lady who has been working with him for a year (as an intern, I think) and done exceedingly well. He's blogged about her before and is always gushingly proud of her achievements, but she bloody well deserves it. She's absolutely fantastic.
Thing is, she's so thin and scrawny, you'd think she'd snap if you breathe too hard around her... but she can clearly handle a plane more than well enough!!

So I guess it's again down to body mechanics, at least a big part of it, anyway.

 

[Ttrees]

I think that bench height has more to do with it than the plane itself

I agree with Mrs C... which sounds like a campaign slogan- "I Like Ike", sorta thing. :lol:

As you may know, I've been struggling a bit with learning to use my planes on low sawhorses, but I did let my wife 'have a little go' on my 4 and 5 when she came in to see how I was getting along.
She's notably shorter than me (and has a bit more bodyweight, but we won't go there), so was able to get behind the plane and shove it better than I could with my lanky gibbon arms.
Same concept as Mrs C's bench height, but bringing the woodworker down to height rather than the bench up to it.

Incidentally, also the exact same concept as the body mechanics behind delivering a hook punch to the ribs or kidneys in boxing - that's something else I'm usually too tall for, but at which my shorter wife absolutely kicks buttocks at!!

I'm starting to wonder if *I* should be watching TV and cuddling up with the dogs, while my wife freezes her backside off working wood in the garage...!!

Where I have really struggled is planes meant for one handed use such as block planes as my hands just aren't big enough.

The wife also has smaller hands, so did well with both bench planes, whereas mine still ache.

Felicitously, the latest blog from Paul Sellers is all about Hannah, a young lady who has been working with him for a year (as an intern, I think) and done exceedingly well. He's blogged about her before and is always gushingly proud of her achievements, but she bloody well deserves it. She's absolutely fantastic.
Thing is, she's so thin and scrawny, you'd think she'd snap if you breathe too hard around her... but she can clearly handle a plane more than well enough!!

So I guess it's again down to body mechanics, at least a big part of it, anyway.

Tasky
Just have a look round for the nearest skip you can find, you will probably find some blocks to jack those sawhorses
up a bit.
Incidentally. you stand a good chance of finding a fire door aswell, along with some more bits that might be handy.
Look around some hotels, pubs or the dump

 

[Mr T]

Hi Chris - that'd be described as setting it too close. Setting it a notch just back from that is productive. The effort of planing is little more, there is no interruption in the cut, any minor tearout that occurs will be small, and the plane requires less downforce.

Trust me, it's less. It's good practice for everyone.

You may have noticed D-W that you tend to provoke a reaction on the forum. I think it's that you tend to present that you are the only person who understands planes and cap irons. I have been fiddling around with planes for about forty years so the foregoing could be seen as "teaching your grandmother to suck eggs!"

I personally find a 5 easier than a 4 as mine feels better balanced, but that might just be me! I think that bench height has more to do with it than the plane itself (oh, and not to mention the concept of getting it sharp, but best not go there!).

Where I have really struggled is planes meant for one handed use such as block planes as my hands just aren't big enough.

I agree. There was much manoeuvring of duck boards to adjust height at the beginning of the course. Have you tried those little apron planes? Hand size is also a factor with power tools, some of the students had trouble reaching the switch on the biscuit and Domino jointer.

Chris

 

[Bm101]

Where I have really struggled is planes meant for one handed use such as block planes as my hands just aren't big enough.

More asking another question than able to give an answer and just wondering out loud... Maybe the pros can help?
Might a number 3 be a good call here? It's not supposed to be for that I suppose but if you adapted the iron angle then you would possibly have, an admittedly 2 handed, solution but it might work. I have a number 3. (Probably shouldn't have bought it I'll admit that... Still).
Point being the sole is not far off the 101 I converted. Bigger than a small typically one handed block plane of course but nonetheless might serve a purpose?
I'm not after selling mine if you were thinking that was the direction I was going in
Just a thought. Probably more holes in it than emmantal.
Cheers
Chris

Edit. Posted at the same time as Chris T. So please forgive any confusion. Workshop heaven sometimes have deals on those little apron planes by QS. Just a thought... you could also try looking for a flat musical instrument makers plane. I picked a bronze one up some time ago off eBay for pennies. Granted this is not a one click buy and for non luthiers probably no good except for having a pretty tool to break arrises and similar. Might help though.

 

[AndyT]

Maybe a plane designed and sold for use in schools would be suitable?
When I was a s̶k̶i̶n̶n̶y̶ ̶w̶e̶e̶d̶ "slightly built" 11 year old I had a razee jack like this one to use, which was ok.

Or maybe the metal equivalent, the Record T5?

 

[D_W]

You may have noticed D-W that you tend to provoke a reaction on the forum. I think it's that you tend to present that you are the only person who understands planes and cap irons. I have been fiddling around with planes for about forty years so the foregoing could be seen as "teaching your grandmother to suck eggs!"

Chris

I've encountered a lot of people who have been using planes for 40 years who can't use the cap iron with as good of effect as I learned to in two weeks in 2012. Usually, it's because of one of the following:
* said users understand setting the cap iron really close in bad wood, but nothing beyond that
* said users deal mostly with beginners, who don't really get the subtleties of this whole thing, unless they've dimensioned to finish a couple of hundred feet of wood
* said users don't do much dimensioning themselves, and can recount having done it some in a woodworking school

I'd turn just about everyone toward someone like Brian Holcombe, who learned to use the cap iron because he was working wood by hand. The quality of education regarding the cap iron in the last hundred years plus has been significantly lacking.

I beat the drum on it only because quite often someone says they want to learn to plane well, they don't want to spend a bunch of extra money, or they're going to buy something like a bevel up plane to solve their tearout problems (which is a wall hanger in a situation where you're doing more than planing off chatter from a machine).

Do I think I'm better at planing than most people on forums? Yes. Does that make people irritable? I guess it does. Do I think that it's stupid for someone to suggest that the cap iron and many other methods are all about equivalent? Of course it is. if they were, cap irons wouldn't have completely eliminated decent single iron planes in a matter of a couple of decades when the users were professionals, and at the same time that wood quality was declining.

You can do without, but if you don't suggest the best way to do something to students, you're doing a disservice to them, even if it's not convenient to describe it as being more subtle than just really close or not.

If anyone thinks that I'm one-dimensional in thought about this, and that everything is generally equivalent, prove me wrong. Work a hundred board feet in a couple of projects - entirely by hand, force yourself to hit thickness marks at a hundredth or less (which isn't difficult) and leave no tearout on lumber. Or you can even ditch the lack of tearout. You'll find yourself following my advice quickly out of natural laziness (it is far easier to do it the right way).

It will make little difference in time if you go back to rough work with machines, BUT, it will make clean up of anything that comes off of a machine extremely quick and predictable. With planes that cost very little. It'll cut sharpening to half or less per volume of wood, and just generally be better. And it's free.

The difference is about as much as rolling a hook or not on a card scraper. There exists a gaggle of folks who can't reliably roll hooks on scrapers, so they dribble along burnishing surfaces with no hook on a scraper instead of investing a little bit of time learning to roll a burr on anything soft enough to accept one.

This issue is magnified on anyone who is slight (the cap iron) because it decreases effort needed. It decreases stress on the elbows, shoulders, etc, rework or blown marking lines, and all without "just setting the cap close and making the plane more difficult to push". That level of closeness is very seldom needed.

 

[MikeG.]

Best plane for a woman.

I thought it was a fairly simple to understand question myself.