Best or most useful plough/combi plane?

[Homeless Squirrel]

Hi Was going to hit the bid button on a Record 405 which had lots of bits with it.
But there is also a Stanley 50s plus others so wondering what's out there that is useable and has a wide scope of capabilities etc.
Was looking for something to step some oak planks i got to make chopping boards as where got them from had a pile of maple from old floors before house was stripped out but builders got rid of and the oak is next best thing as was left over from when we built the oak "Banquet" table "It's huge"
Do have a 78 rebate plane with guides already plus had a play with old wooden plough plane but only have no3 blade but i made some tongue but no groove work other day!
I could go use a router but prefer to go with the hand method if can as to me that's what woodwork's about or might as well buy it.

Do have a pack of blades for a Record 043 but plane looks a tad basic/for light jobs

 

[Orraloon]

I can only comment on the stanley 50. It does a good enough job for the little use I give it and so far I have only used about a quarter of the cutters. Actually that is why I grabbed it as it came with 2 boxes of cutters. My advice would be to get the plane that has the cutters you need. From what I see around forums the 45 seems to be the most used and the 55 is for the guy who wants everything. That said whatever one you have it's only as good as the cutters you have for it. Plenty of good old planes out there but few with a good selection of cutters. Veritas now do a combination plane but its expensive and you have to buy the cutters one by one.
I have found hunting old tools is you have to just pounce when the right thing comes along.
Happy hunting
John

 

[Argus]

Both those planes were in production for decades and there was, inevitably, some changes in quality.

For example, a good few tools of all kinds that were made in the UK after the last war and into the early '50s were subject to the so-called 'War-Finish' (look it up) which restricted the use of nickel - there will be a noticeable change in the plated finish, though the quality of use was the same. Some of these - but not exclusively - that still have the box, had a paper label, stating the fact.

The No 50 style planes - both sorts - were mainly aimed at hobbyist-use and again ranged in quality. Personally, I think that a good, latter-day Record No: 050 from the late '60s is superior to the Stanley 50..... better-made, better finish, better feel - but that's me.

The Record No: 405, made in England is almost identical to the Stanley 45 version which was imported and attracted a lot of taxes, years ago. The cutters and most parts are interchangeable as are many of the threads, but there are exceptions, so be careful if you see a 'marriage'.
These planes were often given as 'retirement trophies' so it is possible to see complete examples on the market that are often unused.
Even more rare was the Clifton version..... made around the 1980/90s.....

Whatever you buy, I would, first off, advise a close examination of the quality of the finish on the rods - plus making sure that it is complete.
Sometimes the rod's plating comes off in odd places along the length of the rod and it can compromise the rigidity of the contact when the screw is tightened.

If you are doing wide rebates, an alternative method is to define the inside edge down to depth first with a narrow cutter, say 1/4 or 5/16 inch. You can then follow up with a bigger rebate plane or a well-set bench plane such as a No: 4 or 5 to hog off the rest of the meat. A little more work but the results are more positive, I think.

A No: 043 is a lovely little plane...... unmatched for what it does best, but not for heavy or deep cuts and I wouldn't be without one, but in addition to a bigger version.

It's worth being patient and waiting for a good 'un to turn up so good luck!

 

[Jacob]

Stanley 13-052 is good. Often cheap as not as nice looking as older alternatives. Complete set includes matching T&G cutters.
For rebates Stanley 78 is tops.
Argus's idea above is good - slot with a plough and remove wider rebates with any handy plane.
Old woody rebate planes are also excellent and very cheap.

 

[deema]

The 50 has allegedly a reputation for the two skids not always to be parallel: the 405 / 45 I haven’t read anywhere where this was a problem out of the factory (can be if dropped) the two skids must be parallel for it to run true in a slot.
With a bit of tool Steel you can make yourself any cutter you want for this type of plane. The advise to find one with lots of cutters is spot on, they are the most desired when you come to sell it / pass it on.

I have a Record 405, it gets a lot of use! I use it in to preference to a rebate (Record 708, which has I think better blade depth adjustment) plane. Now, I only use the various widths of rebate / grooving cutters, I don’t really use any of the shaped cutters as I have a Spindle moulder. For small sections, one offs I enjoy using the 405 rather than setting up the spindle with an Adjustable Groover. Would I buy it again, most definitely.

 

[Argus]

The 50 has allegedly a reputation for the two skids not always to be parallel: the 405 / 45 I haven’t read anywhere where this was a problem out of the factory (can be if dropped) the two skids must be parallel for it to run true in a slot.

Yes, I've heard that one too, though I have never encountered the out-of-parallel-skate-syndrome on any of my metal ploughs that is unacceptable. As the blade tightener is a wing-nut and bolt, there is a tendency for this to pull the back of the sliding skate out of line The 50 series comes with an adjusting screw at the rear of the sliding skate to counter this tendency. There is also a slight blade overhang on each side of the two skates and this allows them to run free, unless, of course there is a pronounced bias.

Unlike the Record 050, the Stanley No: 50 does not have any holes on the main fence for a wooden fence to be attached which can, in turn, be planed true and parallel to the main skate. They work much better with a larger wooden guide fence attached, in my opinion - easier to control.

With a bit of tool Steel you can make yourself any cutter you want for this type of plane. The advise to find one with lots of cutters is spot on, they are the most desired when you come to sell it / pass it on.

Just about all the metal plough planes will use a blade that is about 1/8 inch thick. The only differing point between makers is the type of fine adjustment which may not be interchangeable. If you disengage this item and adjust it manually, almost any 1/8 inch thick blade can be used, within reason.

One point that is often overlooked with these cutters is that the blades on metal ploughs were intentionally trapezoidal in cross-section, tapering toward the bevel side. Not by much, just a couple of degrees.
This means that as the bevel is downwards in use, the forward-going back of the blade is wider and the sides offer less resistance to the cut as the blade descends in its cut.

Some new, replacement blades are actually rectangular in shape and the difference in friction in deep cuts is noticeable.

 

[Homeless Squirrel]

The other thing is i'm predominantly left handed.
but you often get the case where got something and it comes back you should have gone for that as does this this and that while yours don't and it's the That that you could do with being able to do today!.

Have a i guess half length of HS Steel think came from an industrial planer from back in the day when men were men and all wore shorts? well has to be at least around 60 years old.

 

[deema]

Veritas have both LH and RH versions, but I’m virtually certain you can setup the Record 405 LH, just the knob will be on the wrong side. I hold the fence so which ever side the knob is on is irrelevant

 

[thetyreman]

my favourite plough plane is the record no44, and I use a no78 for rebates, it's very rare you'll actually need the rare extra blades on a combination plane, if you need to bead an edge for example you can just use scratch stock.

 

[D_W]

Have a i guess half length of HS Steel think came from an industrial planer from back in the day when men were men and all wore shorts? well has to be at least around 60 years old.

probably m2. if it's not soft, it would be fine for a blade.

it sounds like you're talking about tongue and groove, though. Not always that pleasant in combination planes, especially in hardwoods. if you need a tight fit, you'd probably be better off with a router bit or some other similar setup. I've T&Ged a pretty fair number of linear footage with T&G planes and they work well for it, but they're better used for things like making the back of a case where the T&G is boards pinned or screwed close together with the T&G used to provide room for movement.

Not that they won't create something you could glue, but you may find visual bits (tear/breaks) on the surface of the boards if you're joining boards.

glue only and clean glue joints (properly whetted) would also be fine. I've made plenty of pencils, glued them and then soaked them in mineral spirits/wax for a couple of days to deliver the wax and stabilize the pencil to prevent seasonal movement, and none of the glue joints have given up.

 

[D_W]

(I've had a gaggle of combination planes, too. they're OK at a lot of things. Better at plowing than most other things, but not as good as a wooden plow in terms of comfort and ease through a volume of work. most of the other items will be housewright quality results unless you can really find perfect perfect wood. the plane I actually like best for typical stuff like grooving if making something that a single purpose plane won't do ---the record 050c. But it still would have unsupported T&G parts and getting a router table like fit is going to be a rough go.)

 

[Homeless Squirrel]

probably m2. if it's not soft, it would be fine for a blade.

it sounds like you're talking about tongue and groove, though. Not always that pleasant in combination planes, especially in hardwoods. if you need a tight fit, you'd probably be better off with a router bit or some other similar setup. I've T&Ged a pretty fair number of linear footage with T&G planes and they work well for it, but they're better used for things like making the back of a case where the T&G is boards pinned or screwed close together with the T&G used to provide room for movement.

Not that they won't create something you could glue, but you may find visual bits (tear/breaks) on the surface of the boards if you're joining boards.

glue only and clean glue joints (properly whetted) would also be fine. I've made plenty of pencils, glued them and then soaked them in mineral spirits/wax for a couple of days to deliver the wax and stabilize the pencil to prevent seasonal movement, and none of the glue joints have given up.

in the oak was thinking of making a step on each piece so like 25mm in and 25mm down so overlap rather than T&G so a feature on ends but always open to other ideas!
Been thinking of making lengths of moulding to fit to front door rather than just a flat door then give it a mirror coat paint job

 

[D_W]

Ahh. glued lap joint, no experience, but you can test fit each piece and tune as needed.

If you'd like a joint for assurance rather than just glued edge joints or side joints (if making an end grain version for a cutting board), you can, at least on the edge joints, make yourself splines.

I have long ago given up on finding a reasonable situation where a properly glued board fails, though - I've not had a joint fail, but it doesn't mean it won't happen if a board is *really* heavily oiled constantly.

Things like splines and lap are a good bit of work if they ultimately aren't needed, though.

 

[Homeless Squirrel]

It was more for looking more elaborate/arty farty and hopefully lessens warping
Seen some made in an optical illusion way so looks jagged/zigzag but isn't